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Old 08-09-2018, 03:41 PM
3,700 posts, read 3,025,705 times
Reputation: 10007


Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
From my experience the union seemed to only benefit the older and slower, more expensive workers while doing little for the business itself.
That's weird, my experience was just the opposite, highly trained and seasoned workers building one hell of a high tech product, taking the time and effort to help train the newbies for their long and hopefully prosperous career.

As a casual observation after forty three years of working: Most companies will try to get rid of the higher paid worker in favor of the "not the best, but OK worker" simply because that adds a positive to their bottom line. I saw plenty of young workers--and old workers--who were not the best contributors, but that happens in union AND non union companies.

We live and work in a society which should recognize the utility in having both parties--workers and management--as beneficiaries of the production effort. That's to say we live in a democratic society that acknowledges the value of both labor and capital.

There's no saints on either side, but, the fact that all are major contributors to the overall economic picture means they both have separate interests but they can still work together. it's happening all over the world, so it's not an incomprehensible thing..
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:30 PM
690 posts, read 317,194 times
Reputation: 480
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
i dont hate unions. most of my employees are members of a union. i have an excellent working relationship with the union. i am confident that i can give an objective assessment of their benefits/costs to my employees (moreso than my employees can). its complicated but i feel that a % of my employees benefit and a % are negatively impacted. its probably 60-70% or so negative. there are a lot of other factors involved so it really isnt that simple. its totally inaccurate to say that i hate unions or anyone. when it comes to business, i am completely objective.
Who said anything about hate?
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:32 PM
Location: NJ
22,670 posts, read 28,551,950 times
Reputation: 14611
Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
Who said anything about hate?

Originally Posted by Liledgy View Post
7 reply’s from people that dislike unions, contradicting each other as to why they hate them.
this person said it to:

Originally Posted by kitty61 View Post
It's totally unreasonable to hate unions.
and that was in response to me, which is bs. it is trying to reframe the discussion to comply with your preferred narrative. "oh anyone that opposes unions is hating them." it reminds me of a teacher asking chris christie why he hates her (because he was acting in opposition to the teacher's union.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:32 PM
690 posts, read 317,194 times
Reputation: 480
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Businessmen are generally pretty good at looking out for themselves.

Now I was a union boilermaker for 35 years, Local 1, Chicago. I made considerably more money than non union boilermakers, had better benefits and conditions. I made enough dough to put both my daughters through the U of Illinois paying every nickel out of pocket—tuition, books, housing, food-the whole shebang. Even bought a new car for them to run between Chicago and Champaign. I retired 14 years ago at 55 with an excellent pension.

Now if anyone can convince me being union wasn’t to my benefit I’ll call them Aristotle.

The benefit of others isn’t my concern, I mean that’s the way capitalism works, right—I look out for myself and you look out for yourself, right? And when someone disapproves of the success of others you accuse them of envy and being unAmerican, right?
This! I’m IBEW local 9 out of Chicago.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:51 PM
Status: "Trapped but not by Minnesota" (set 6 days ago)
Location: Somwhere
3,121 posts, read 1,216,189 times
Reputation: 8020
My husband was the union rep in his office. He fought and won issues like the boss hiding the vacation schedule and giving preference to his friends, or using meetings to push his religion on the workers. Husband also prevented workers from going out in the field during a riot. A worker from another office was beaten during that riot.

He also represented new hires who were unfairly being let go just before the end of their probationary period.

Management can be jerks, workers need support.

I was a part of a different union that was useless. They didn't know what they were doing, and believed everything management threatened. For instance, they crowed about their victory when they prevented management from implementing a dress code that included banning jeans and had different rules for men and women. Um, let them make that rule and we can all sue them!

And a long time ago, I worked for management vs the longshore union. Motivated workers could make over $100k a year in the early '80s. Unmotivated workers could be fired from a job one day and back at work the next day. They even got paid if there was no work.

Last edited by steiconi; 08-09-2018 at 09:34 PM..
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:52 PM
Location: the Permian Basin
4,093 posts, read 2,819,540 times
Reputation: 5663
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
I worked non union for many years, watched the business owners getting wealthier by the year, and no raises were offered to us the people who made them wealthy.

Employees don't make business owners wealthy, customers do.

Oh, and employees are business owners - our 401(k)s, IRAs, and pension funds are all invested in the stock market, which means that the employees are co-owners in all of the companies whose shares are held in the funds.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:45 PM
Location: Ohio
17,996 posts, read 13,233,625 times
Reputation: 13771
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
I fully agree with these authors opinion of “Why you should care about unions,(even if you’re not in one)". I'm a populist and not now a member of a union.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/o...uri-janus.html .

Respectfully, Supposn
How'd that work out for Zenith's union workers?

Now they're all working for McDonald's and Wal-Mart.

Zenith and its union workers couldn't compete against South Korean LG Corporation and their union workers.

LG Corporation amassed $Billions in profits globally, while Zenith could barely break even.

LG Corporation took its profits and started buying shares of stock in Zenith, and before long, LG Corporation owned 58% of Zenith's stocks -- and, no, Zenith didn't have any cash to buy back its own stock and protect itself.

Now that LG Corporation controlled Zenith, it ran Zenith into the ground. Zenith ultimately filed bankruptcy, and LG Corporation paid $200 Million to own 100% of Zenith, then shut down all of Zenith's North American operations.

So, Zenith union workers were out of a job.

If you think unions will protect American workers, they won't. They might protect only Domestic workers who produce zero for export, but even that would create economic problems.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:53 AM
64,530 posts, read 66,075,955 times
Reputation: 42978
unions artificially prop up wages of many jobs the market place would never value at those levels .

many of the good manufacturing jobs that are gone should never have been at those levels in the first place
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:31 AM
8,376 posts, read 7,362,552 times
Reputation: 18234
The only strong unions are public service (government employees) unions. In private employment, only 6% of all employees are union. After the recent court decision, that number will rapidly decline fast.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:52 AM
Location: San Antonio
10,147 posts, read 18,123,288 times
Reputation: 9858
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
unions artificially prop up wages of many jobs the market place would never value at those levels .
Unions are part of the market, which indeed, how could they be anything but part of the market?
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