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Old 08-10-2018, 06:12 AM
 
64,745 posts, read 66,226,110 times
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they were part of the market and a big part at one time . they forced petty manufacturing skills to earn far more than the job was worth . today things have leveled off to where for the most part non skilled labor positions no longer are paid what they were .

people talk about losing those good paying jobs in manufacturing but most of those jobs were paying more than they were worth and so anyone waiting for them to return is chasing a ghost
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:20 AM
 
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I'm not anti union, but I am against the abuse of power of unions. Public sector unions such as police and fire (here in Massachusetts) are out of control. When the state police are retiring with 250,000 dollar annual pensions, something is seriously wrong. When 90% of the Boston fire department retires on disability pensions when their 'disability' occurred while filling in for someone on a higher pay grade, it's systemic fraud. No politician will touch the issue because, well you know, heroes get carte blanche to perpetuate whatever fraud they choose and every politician wants their union's endorsement.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:05 AM
 
Location: USA
6,171 posts, read 4,960,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
they were part of the market and a big part at one time . they forced petty manufacturing skills to earn far more than the job was worth . today things have leveled off to where for the most part non skilled labor positions no longer are paid what they were .

people talk about losing those good paying jobs in manufacturing but most of those jobs were paying more than they were worth and so anyone waiting for them to return is chasing a ghost
I worked in supermarkets for many years. The unions killed off many chains in my area. You had stocking clerks making $20+ an hour, overtime on Sundays, 6+ weeks of vacation, pension plan, etc. It was unsustainable in an industry where revenues are stagnant and even decreasing.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:13 AM
 
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same here . most closed up and are gone now . we had so many failures .
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
3,766 posts, read 1,598,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Unions are a mechanism by which a free market makes corrections. Investors and business people work collectively in corporations and trade associations to further their economic interests. It makes sense that employees should work collectively in unions to further their economic interests.

Those who don’t like joining a union as a condition of employment are free to seek work somewhere else.

That some unions are poorly run is no more a valid argument against unions than to argue that because some corporations are poorly run we shouldn’t have corporations.

That was better said than if I sat and thought about it all day. That argument takes the wind out of the sails of anyone who buys the propaganda lines of Fox or Breightbart.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
3,766 posts, read 1,598,209 times
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Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
And yet that is exactly what happened in my home town in rural PA. Growing up my hometown was like a Norman Rockwell painting. A great place to grow up. There were four factories in town through mid-eighties. If you weren't a farmer you worked one of those factories. Pretty stable.

Then the Unions started getting aggressive. They kept pushing and pushing the owners for more and more over the course of a few years. Everyone in town was like what are they doing? if they keep talking like this we are likely to lose our jobs. Pay was growing, pensions seemed like a dream come true, lots of vacation... It was to the point that a janitor was making $25/hr in 1985. But people were very concerned that it can't last. Payscale was completely out of whack for the area. Sounds great at first but eventually the owners had enough. The factories were loosing so much money because the wages and benefits were consuming any profits. So one by one they closed the factories over the course of five years.

Today my hometown is a waste hole. All the grocery and clothing store fronts closed replaced with "Women, Infant children assistance" and church charities. 70% of the populace is on some sort of gov assistance, and meth has absolutely destroyed the community. The HS drop out rate is triple what it was in the mid 80's.

The union fat cats got theirs and are no where to be found in that community. They pushed until the there was none left to be had and a community was destroyed.

The river towns in the Hudson Valley are similar. The factories moved out whether the shops were unionized or not. No one area in our country can compete with the salaries paid in China.
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:53 AM
 
Location: USA
6,171 posts, read 4,960,268 times
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Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
The river towns in the Hudson Valley are similar. The factories moved out whether the shops were unionized or not. No one area in our country can compete with the salaries paid in China.
And not just the salaries either. There are environmental regulations, workers rights, etc. None of which exist in China at the level as it is here.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,736 posts, read 59,658,355 times
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Various family members are or have been union members during the past ten years. They universally dislike them. They say they take your money and do nothing for you. Instead they make deals with owner's/management/government which increase the union's power but does little or nothing for the workers. They also seem to universally take advantage of part time workers, throwing them to the wolves on order to get something popular with the full timers (who get to vote - part timers do not). It seems the unions ar just as guilty of taking advantage of the little guy as management/government.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:23 AM
 
27,552 posts, read 45,007,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
I fully agree with these authors opinion of “Why you should care about unions,(even if you’re not in one)". I'm a populist and not now a member of a union.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/o...uri-janus.html .

Respectfully, Supposn
Populist is a term that Trump has appropriated and the media (even the liberal side) seems to think fits him
Which is so wrong--
Teddy Roosevelt was a Populist
Bob Lafollet was a populist

Trump is not...

And I agree that the death of unions signaled the death of the strong middle class in America
You don't have to be an auto plant worker or a Teamster to benefit from collective bargaining
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:25 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,453,647 times
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Unions are like lawyers -many unpleasant things associated with them -but when your neck is on the chopping block -who you Going to call?
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