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Old 08-10-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,792 posts, read 1,676,108 times
Reputation: 1725

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
Fast food and part-time retail jobs used to be held primarily by teenagers. I don't think there was any time in our history as a country where a McDonald's employee was able to buy a house and raise a family.

Classism has existed for a long time. The "good old days" weren't nearly as good as you're trying to say. I do think, however, that many people in the past had a far better work ethic than they do now.

I have no problem with the poor wanting improve their status, but I do have a problem with the attitude that everything should be handed to them because "they're as good as anyone else." It should go without saying that every human being has intrinsic value, but when someone chooses McDonald's as a lifelong career, they're choosing to be low-income. I don't know what your comment about it being a problem that education won't solve even means. Most people who get an education don't end up sticking around McD's or Walmart.

Just because teenagers used to mainly be the ones to work these jobs does not mean that always has to be the case. Situations change things change businesses back in the day were the main workers at these jobs because there were other better paying jobs for adults to do it is different today. Businesses hire people because they need people to help run their business not because they are teens or men or woman. Sure people could increase their value but like I have said many times there are only a certain amount of higher jobs available not enough for everyone.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:54 PM
 
2,697 posts, read 3,746,884 times
Reputation: 2862
When I stop seeing the Average Joe running around with an iPhone, I will begin to feel sorry for him or her (Average Annie). The iPhoneX now sells for nearly $1k, correct? Absolutely ridiculous. And many upgrade every few months.

Entitlement mentality has taken the USA by storm and we will all pay for it, some more than others.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:56 PM
 
20,417 posts, read 26,539,344 times
Reputation: 13111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
Just because teenagers used to mainly be the ones to work these jobs does not mean that always has to be the case. Situations change things change businesses back in the day were the main workers at these jobs because there were other better paying jobs for adults to do it is different today. Businesses hire people because they need people to help run their business not because they are teens or men or woman. Sure people could increase their value but like I have said many times there are only a certain amount of higher jobs available not enough for everyone.

I didn't say anything differently. I was addressing a comment about how "things didn't used to be this way." One more time, what I was saying was that back in the "good old days," people didn't try to buy homes and raise families on fast food wages, and that was meant as a statement of fact rather than the judgement call you seem to think it is. If you're trying to "debate" the value of these jobs, I'm sure you can find someone who believes what you're assuming I do...

I really don't care what they do, but if they want to work at a McJob for their entire lives, they need to understand that there will be financial difficulties involved and that they'll likely be replaced by automation at some point.

Meanwhile, the local community college says they can't get enough students to fill positions in certain trades. Baby boomers are also retiring in droves, so it's a pretty good time for those who want to move beyond McJobs to do so.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:16 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 330,127 times
Reputation: 1663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I didn't say anything differently. I was addressing a comment about how "things didn't used to be this way." One more time, what I was saying was that back in the "good old days," people didn't try to buy homes and raise families on fast food wages, and that was meant as a statement of fact rather than the judgement call you seem to think it is. If you're trying to "debate" the value of these jobs, I'm sure you can find someone who believes what you're assuming I do...

I really don't care what they do, but if they want to work at a McJob for their entire lives, they need to understand that there will be financial difficulties involved and that they'll likely be replaced by automation at some point.

Meanwhile, the local community college says they can't get enough students to fill positions in certain trades. Baby boomers are also retiring in droves, so it's a pretty good time for those who want to move beyond McJobs to do so.
Afraid of success? What is this phenomenon?
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:45 PM
 
3,266 posts, read 2,335,410 times
Reputation: 5622
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
If someone makes $15 an hour, that's $28,800 a year. That's not enough for them to buy a home in Ohio. And my next question would be, do the McDonalds and Walmarts in Ohio actually pay $15 an hour?

I know the next comments will be that if someone wants to just work at a McDonalds or Walmart for the rest of their life, they deserve the pay they get. But I see two things wrong with this assumption.

1) We didn't used to think like this. As long as someone was working and working an honest job, we didn't talk about how they "deserve" the pay they get. People used to just be glad you had a job and didn't judge you on it. And in fact, many service jobs were worked by one person supporting a family. I hate to say it, but I think we've become elitist snobs when we start talking about how some jobs are better than others and therefore some people are better than others, just because they don't have to work "those jobs". Which leads into...

2) We judge people solely on how much money they make. We don't just judge them on how successful they are, but we also think people who make more money are smarter, nicer, more moral, and more deserving of the good things in life than people who work lower paid jobs. We've gone from thinking poor people shouldn't smoke or drink because of how much it costs to poor people shouldn't smoke or drink because a poor person who smokes and drinks has lower morals than someone who smokes and drinks but makes more money.

When did that attitude start to take over in our country?
Well, I don't know any people with attitudes like you describe so I disagree that it is taking over our country.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:06 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 330,127 times
Reputation: 1663
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
Well, I don't know any people with attitudes like you describe so I disagree that it is taking over our country.
We tend to create our own bubbles of like-minded peers, so it wouldn't surprise me if either of you haven't heard of anyone with an opposing point of view.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:16 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,233 posts, read 15,024,326 times
Reputation: 20847
Wages are stagnant and have been for several years now. And it's NOT because people aren't working hard.

After the 2008 recession - many jobs disappeared and folks suddenly found themselves doing the work of 2 people. One Corporate America figured they could work their people harder with no more pay - the gig was up.

What IS it with the corporate bootlicking?
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:19 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 330,127 times
Reputation: 1663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Wages are stagnant and have been for several years now. And it's NOT because people aren't working hard.

After the 2008 recession - many jobs disappeared and folks suddenly found themselves doing the work of 2 people. One Corporate America figured they could work their people harder with no more pay - the gig was up.

What IS it with the corporate bootlicking?
Why you should care about unions,(even if you’re not in one.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:27 PM
 
1,025 posts, read 558,839 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-going-nowhere

Some of the statistics make you really stop and think.

"Almost 80% of Americans say they live from paycheck to paycheck, many not knowing how big their next one will be."

"The typical American worker now earns around $44,500 a year, not much more than what the typical worker earned in 40 years ago, adjusted for inflation."

"Add to this the fact that the richest 10% of Americans own about 80% of all shares of stock (the top 1% owns about 40%), and you get a broader picture of how and why inequality has widened so dramatically."

"The federal minimum wage has not been increased since 2009, and is now about where it was in 1950 when adjusted for inflation."


Do you think your future is secure? Are you worried about what will happen if you have a setback? Are you concerned for the future of your children?
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
All I see unions do is to be destructive to their workers/ members.

A very long time ago, unions did a lot of good, before there were laws protecting workers. That is no longer necessary because of the huge number of laws now in effect protecting health, safety, over time, benefits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
OregonWoodSmoke, I disagree. There's certainly a need for labor unions. Since the U.S. Congress's overriding President Truman's veto of the Taft-Harley act, organized labor's ability to organize an enterprise's employees has been increasingly diminished. Due to the weakening of USA labor unions, improvement of employees compensations, and/or working conditions, and/or security are more difficult to achieve and lesser than otherwise.

Gross domestic product, (GDP) is the nations total production of goods and service products. Trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nation's GDP and thus, also drag upon their nation's numbers of jobs.
Due to USA's chronic annual trade deficits of goods and the weakening of labor unions, the purchasing power of USA's median wage is less than otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
OregonWoodSmoke, excerpted from the NY Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/o...uri-janus.html
… Owing largely to a sustained political assault on unions, their memberships have been declining since the mid-20th century — a trend that, not coincidentally, maps neatly onto rising economic inequality and falling wages. …

Excerpted from the Harvard Business Review:
https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-wages-ar...ing-in-america
(excerpted from the Harvard Business Review.)
… The majority of Americans share in economic growth through the wages they receive for their labor, rather than through investment income. Unfortunately, many of these workers have fared poorly in recent decades. Since the early 1970s, the hourly inflation-adjusted wages received by the typical worker have barely risen, growing only 0.2% per year. In other words, though the economy has been growing, the primary way most people benefit from that growth has almost completely stalled. ...
RodentRaiser, I'm among the proponents for gradually increasing the purchasing power of the Federal minimum wage rate by 12% each New Years day until it attains 125% of 1968 purchasing power and also monitoring and adjusting it each labor day to stay abreast with a federal cost-price index number. That cost of living adjustment has sucessfully retained social Security retirement benefits' purchasing powers.

I'm also among the proponents of USA enacting the improved trade policy described in Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
The unilateral IC policy would significantly reduce, if not entirely eliminate our nations chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. The substantially market-driven policy's entire direct expenses are passed on to USA purchasers of imported goods.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:37 PM
 
1,241 posts, read 3,597,869 times
Reputation: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
I didn't say anything differently. I was addressing a comment about how "things didn't used to be this way." One more time, what I was saying was that back in the "good old days," people didn't try to buy homes and raise families on fast food wages, and that was meant as a statement of fact rather than the judgement call you seem to think it is. If you're trying to "debate" the value of these jobs, I'm sure you can find someone who believes what you're assuming I do...

I really don't care what they do, but if they want to work at a McJob for their entire lives, they need to understand that there will be financial difficulties involved and that they'll likely be replaced by automation at some point.

Meanwhile, the local community college says they can't get enough students to fill positions in certain trades. Baby boomers are also retiring in droves, so it's a pretty good time for those who want to move beyond McJobs to do so.
Enough students as in 18-25 year olds or older adults that want to change careers?? Will they admit (these colleges)openly that there is rampant age discrimination in the trades? Life expentency is now over 80, but millennials think people in their 40s are 'old'. These community colleges target now kids from working class families and minorities in inner city high schools on how the trades are a path to six figures by the time you are 25
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