U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-25-2018, 08:41 AM
 
8,579 posts, read 2,397,860 times
Reputation: 8164

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Very good point. Being from San Antonio Texas, I've seen the statistics firsthand that illustrate how non native English speakers struggle in western education. The dropout rate among Hispanics (many of which are first and 2nd generation illegal and legal immigrants) is even higher than blacks. Plus you also have high birthrate and out of wedlock children.

Bureaucrats are pretty funny, on one hand they want more power to "fix poverty" and on the other hand they import poverty by the millions who won't even get a GED, let a lone a college degree.
GED's aside, the trades (as you well know) are chock full of these immigrants and they are doing extremely skillful work.

Many "libertarians" and very progressive thinkers (Paypay founder Peter Thiel) would take issue with you measuring people by these educational statistics alone. I'm a high school dropout and probably in the top 2%. Many of the founders of our big modern tech firms are college dropouts....meaning they didn't see anything worth staying for.

What people need is literacy AND skills. Income then usually blesses the next generation with much more...and I see evidence of that regularly. Rome wasn't built in a day and the former immigrants (Italian, Eastern European, Scots-Irish) were often illiterate in English and even often in their native tongues. But it didn't continue -now they make up many of our top innovators and earners.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-25-2018, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,398,836 times
Reputation: 8783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Very good point. Being from San Antonio Texas, I've seen the statistics firsthand that illustrate how non native English speakers struggle in western education. The dropout rate among Hispanics (many of which are first and 2nd generation illegal and legal immigrants) is even higher than blacks. Plus you also have high birthrate and out of wedlock children.

Bureaucrats are pretty funny, on one hand they want more power to "fix poverty" and on the other hand they import poverty by the millions who won't even get a GED, let a lone a college degree.
Birueacrats have little interest in that. You mean farmers and other industries that use cheap labor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2018, 08:48 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,865 posts, read 57,900,981 times
Reputation: 29286
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
It is true that we have stabilized - largely because the GOP has fought tooth and nail against giving a "hand up"
to the lower classes. But still.....measured by most any statistic, FDR and LBJ (and T. Roosevelt)
are the biggest heroes of the 20th century.
Largely because of the GOP... this population has been encouraged (coerced even forced) to create ever more of themselves.
Children that they couldn't afford to support then and still can't now (before of after the programs).
And they're still doing it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2018, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,398,836 times
Reputation: 8783
Well, I see homeless when I drive to work every day. No one's helping them. And no one seems interested in helping them.

So there are 500,000 homeless. How much would it cost to simply rent apartments for them? By my reckoning about $6 billion a year. The U.S. federal budget is $2.1 trillion a year, so we could resolve that problem if we wanted to shift two tenths of one percent of resources.

But we won't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2018, 09:27 AM
Status: "delete" (set 23 days ago)
 
3,189 posts, read 1,276,696 times
Reputation: 2351
It's a global economy. There is global competition. Efficiencies continue to improve. Human labor capital will increasingly become obsolete.

Even developing nations, such as China have invested heavily in robotics. I'm starting to think people don't read. Don't get your news from TV. That's the problem.

The Robotics Industry in China - China Briefing News

"MIC 2025 starts by listing the robotics industry, along with artificial intelligence and automation, as one of the priority sectors for high-end development to push forward the transformation and upgrading of the manufacturing industry. This push sees the government aiming to raise the global market share of Chinese-made robots from 31 percent in 2016 to over 50 percent by 2020."

Who knows, maybe that's fake news, right?

That's just one industry. Think about education. What are you taught? You're taught processes. These processes are continuously optimized and will eventually be able to be implemented by machine learning processes that will eliminate a significant amount of "white collar" oriented jobs.

We're looking at a paradigm change and this discounts everything else that could affect the US, such as international de-dollarization which is something that is starting to occur on a more regular basis. There was a failure to invest in infrastructure during the recovery period, so now the US has trillions of dollars of debt and entering what appears to be potentially the end of a long business cycle.

It's hard to say how long that could last, but surely it will expedite innovation, particularly from countries that actually have initiatives and make it a priority to lead the world in this type of technology. However, it remains to be seen if it will positively affect the people of China.

Given this, it seems quite obvious to me that there will millions of unemployable and indebted Americans with absolutely no prospect of living a middle class life (IE: one that consists of lower end private security, high walls, wall spikes, neighborhood watch, dogs, spotlights, panic buttons, lol, etc), might end up resorting to things like crime.

This is only exacerbated by the media today by what seems as if they are finding ways to classify people in order to turn them against each other. The richest of the rich will be secured by the mountains and the coast. They will be well protected by constant drone fly-bys, humanoid like robots, check points, etc. They will rely less on humans because humans "cannot be trusted."

This is coming to the US. You think just abandoning any public welfare and burdening college students with insurmountable debt will lead to a peaceful society?

No. There will be tears.

Last edited by Jobster; 08-25-2018 at 09:35 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-25-2018, 12:22 PM
Status: "delete" (set 23 days ago)
 
3,189 posts, read 1,276,696 times
Reputation: 2351
I hope I'm wrong too. I could easily be wrong. All that it takes for me to be wrong is for people to start thinking about their elderly and their youth regardless of sex, religion, race, class, perceived attractiveness, perceived intelligence, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Just like generations before us who came together during crisis and put their lives at stake, I believe if we have the discipline to do the same, in the sense of employing austerity on us and focusing on innovating sustainable products and services as well as redeveloping our infrastructure and essentially decentralizing our society with a goal of self-sufficiency with multiple fail safes and high levels of both health and safety, that we can preserver and prosper.

How can people expect to live in a world where health and safety are not met? These are the fundamentals in Maslow's heirachy.

Are we now to teach people to go straight to self-actualization? Let me tell you about self-actualization. Self-actualization takes no discipline. Self-actualization can come in the form of an out of wedlock pregnancy or even a bullet depending on the situation. Self-actualization can be a weakness unless it's unselfish self-actualization or even better, altruistic self-actualization. Imagine if everyone followed that guideline.

Hasn't anyone ever read the parable about building a house on sand? What do you think will happen during a storm?

If you don't provide a society with their basic fundamental needs, then there is simply no foundation. Am I wrong?

Last edited by Jobster; 08-25-2018 at 12:42 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2018, 07:50 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,792 posts, read 1,677,486 times
Reputation: 1725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
As a black man I know a little something about poverty. We are the poorest demographic in the country, despite all the rich black athletes and entertainers you see on television.

I agree with the OP in that the war on poverty is largely won. There are no famines in America or lack of access to runnng water. There is no one sleeping on dirt floors. America’s underclass is the envy of the world.

The war is on laziness. Too many people are so damn lazy in this country, they just want stuff given to them. Free education, free healthcare, minimal wage hikes, free food, etc. nothing is free in this country.

If you are poor in this country then it was 100% your choice. No one forced you to drop out of high school to work at McDonalds. No one forced you to have kids out of wedlock. No one forced you to be a convicted felon. No one forced you to finance a used foreign luxury car. No one forced you to marry or date that bum who doesn’t like working.

No one is stopping you from doing something the world wants done so you can provide for your family. The poor in this country will never have sympathy from the poor in Mexico.
Sorry but saying that being poor is 100% your choice is ignorant. What about the people who grew up poor with limited education opportunities or people who have disabilities or just not born smart? Just blaming people for being poor is such a lazy argument. I am pretty sure no poor people in other countries are envy of people here who have to worry all the time if they will have enough money to pay for rent or have enough to eat. In many third world countries even though they are poor they can at least afford a shack and not worry about being evicted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2018, 08:01 PM
 
2,246 posts, read 1,390,219 times
Reputation: 4900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
It's a global economy. There is global competition. Efficiencies continue to improve. Human labor capital will increasingly become obsolete.

Even developing nations, such as China have invested heavily in robotics. I'm starting to think people don't read. Don't get your news from TV. That's the problem.

The Robotics Industry in China - China Briefing News

"MIC 2025 starts by listing the robotics industry, along with artificial intelligence and automation, as one of the priority sectors for high-end development to push forward the transformation and upgrading of the manufacturing industry. This push sees the government aiming to raise the global market share of Chinese-made robots from 31 percent in 2016 to over 50 percent by 2020."

Who knows, maybe that's fake news, right?

That's just one industry. Think about education. What are you taught? You're taught processes. These processes are continuously optimized and will eventually be able to be implemented by machine learning processes that will eliminate a significant amount of "white collar" oriented jobs.

We're looking at a paradigm change and this discounts everything else that could affect the US, such as international de-dollarization which is something that is starting to occur on a more regular basis. There was a failure to invest in infrastructure during the recovery period, so now the US has trillions of dollars of debt and entering what appears to be potentially the end of a long business cycle.

It's hard to say how long that could last, but surely it will expedite innovation, particularly from countries that actually have initiatives and make it a priority to lead the world in this type of technology. However, it remains to be seen if it will positively affect the people of China.

Given this, it seems quite obvious to me that there will millions of unemployable and indebted Americans with absolutely no prospect of living a middle class life (IE: one that consists of lower end private security, high walls, wall spikes, neighborhood watch, dogs, spotlights, panic buttons, lol, etc), might end up resorting to things like crime.

This is only exacerbated by the media today by what seems as if they are finding ways to classify people in order to turn them against each other. The richest of the rich will be secured by the mountains and the coast. They will be well protected by constant drone fly-bys, humanoid like robots, check points, etc. They will rely less on humans because humans "cannot be trusted."

This is coming to the US. You think just abandoning any public welfare and burdening college students with insurmountable debt will lead to a peaceful society?

No. There will be tears.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rese...Currencies.png
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2018, 09:01 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,865 posts, read 57,900,981 times
Reputation: 29286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
Sorry but saying that being poor is 100% your choice is ignorant.
It would be but this poster is NOT saying that.

His observation is about the CHOICE of the able-bodied to remain poor.
To consistently make poor choices.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,685 posts, read 9,438,208 times
Reputation: 14942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Bureaucrats are pretty funny, on one hand they want more power to "fix poverty" and on the other hand they import poverty by the millions who won't even get a GED, let a lone a college degree.
Bureaucrats primary drive is to protect their own jobs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top