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Old 08-30-2018, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,393,710 times
Reputation: 8778

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
The problem is, WE CAN'T. Courts haven't allowed it. A lot of court decisions would have to be overturned. Maybe a good idea, but not an immediate solution.



You still didn't address the problem of "free". Whenever something's free, especially something like housing, demand will increase exponentially. Unless you put some kind of restrictions on it, demand will run away. Generally, the most dysfunctional people will be attracted to such housing. Those are the people using the drugs, committing the crime, etc. (although generally such housing for senior citizens doesn't have the major issues of dysfunction, but you still have the demand exceeding supply problem).

You really don't get that these problems are more complex than you make them out to be.
Jails are free to the occupants, and we gladly shoulder that collective expense. Are you not suggesting something just a little better than that for homeless? (I am)

That we don't reveals what we really value.

Will making something free really cause runaway demand for the product or service? Really?

What if we built these free houses in Mississippi, or wherever we could find the cheapest land with utility hookups? Build them dormitory style with shared bathrooms. Do you think the demand would skyrocket then?

Last edited by redguard57; 08-30-2018 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:42 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,792 posts, read 1,676,108 times
Reputation: 1725
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
It would be but this poster is NOT saying that.

His observation is about the CHOICE of the able-bodied to remain poor.
To consistently make poor choices.
Again even able bodied people can have bad things happen to them. They can be born with low IQ, get sick, get laid off their job just stating being poor is their fault without facts is just making generalizations. I get it though if you can blame them you can be selfish and not have to help them.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:52 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,792 posts, read 1,676,108 times
Reputation: 1725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I was born with all that. I'm black, no other demographic knows true poverty better than my community.

My parents being poor was 100% their choice. No one stopped them from going to college. They were just too damn lazy to go.

It's a true argument, they drop out of high school, they have kids out of wedlock, they commit crime, they finance things they can't afford. I suggest you do research of the trends of america's underclass.

It's a lazy argument to think the rich are obligated to re-distribute their wealth. Burger flippers don't create jobs, the rich do. Jeff Bezos created countless jobs, not Jeff the janitor.

You personal opinion doesn't reflect reality.

America's poor are the envy of the world, case closed. Hence the reason people south of the border die to come here every year.
You and your parents example does not prove that everyone has a choice to be poor or not because everyone has different circumstances and are born with different abilities the only way you could say it was the same was if everyone lived your exact life. Burger flippers do not create jobs but they create the money the rich make let every burger flipper quit and see how well the business does. My opinion comes from working many low wage jobs and knowing the poor people who work there. How do you know America's poor are the envy of the world do you have any evidence of it seems it is just your opinion.
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Old 09-01-2018, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Boston
5,097 posts, read 1,453,831 times
Reputation: 3733
so many lazy people I have no interest in helping. I paid my dues, your turn.
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Old 09-01-2018, 09:24 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,831 posts, read 57,830,396 times
Reputation: 29215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle View Post
You and your parents example does not prove...
It doesn't have to.
What it does is demonstrate one more example of what CAN happen.

You seem more focused on making excuses for your friends (and you?)...
than pushing them or yourself to do/create more/better for your families.
It also seems like an old habit.
---

The single best thing they can be encouraged to do is to not create ever more of themselves.
The hard truth here is that the parents and grands were all told this too... but not many listened.
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Old 09-04-2018, 06:49 AM
 
4,313 posts, read 5,265,036 times
Reputation: 4211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
It's fascinating to me that Asian and African immigrants from dirt poor countries with "weird" accents come to America and become highly educated plus professionally successful yet many of America's own natives fail to even graduate high school or get a college degree, preferring instead to whine about capitalism and oppression in their short time on earth. As if being born in India or some African country would've been far better for them.

I have no doubt that successful immigrants in America from all over the world routinely mock lazy American natives in private for blowing the great opportunities this country provides for them.
Iíd be all for shipping out the whiny socialist morons who donít realize 100 million people have died because of that idiotic idea and importing a bunch of hard working, intelligent people from around the world who just want a chance. Iíve known a few people from persecuted areas, including Iran, who came here and founded very successful businesses and made it look easy, making millions of dollars because in some cases they did things nobody here really wanted to do or were simply willing to work harder. Their stories and experiences were so grateful to have the amazing opportunities present here.

Meanwhile, for some itís easier to just complain that everything isnít free and how people should build them free housing - ďitís my right!Ē - and doctors should apparently work free for them too, or at least someone else should pay them - ďitís my right!Ē - and food should be free even though someone else has to grow and produce it. In basic reality terms thatís a soft society. You have no right you canít secure yourself. Even laws donít protect you, really. I may have the right not to be assaulted but that right isnít worth much if I canít defend myself against some wacko.

If you want something in life, go take it! You deserve only what you can get for yourself; anything else is charity.
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:47 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,792 posts, read 1,676,108 times
Reputation: 1725
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
It doesn't have to.
What it does is demonstrate one more example of what CAN happen.

You seem more focused on making excuses for your friends (and you?)...
than pushing them or yourself to do/create more/better for your families.
It also seems like an old habit.
---

The single best thing they can be encouraged to do is to not create ever more of themselves.
The hard truth here is that the parents and grands were all told this too... but not many listened.
All it proves is that some people can do it that is a far cry from anyone can. You know you are losing a discussion when you have to resort to personal attacks instead of actual points. By the way me and my friends are doing fine so it makes that point irrelevant.
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:54 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
2,792 posts, read 1,676,108 times
Reputation: 1725
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanLB View Post
I’d be all for shipping out the whiny socialist morons who don’t realize 100 million people have died because of that idiotic idea and importing a bunch of hard working, intelligent people from around the world who just want a chance. I’ve known a few people from persecuted areas, including Iran, who came here and founded very successful businesses and made it look easy, making millions of dollars because in some cases they did things nobody here really wanted to do or were simply willing to work harder. Their stories and experiences were so grateful to have the amazing opportunities present here.

Meanwhile, for some it’s easier to just complain that everything isn’t free and how people should build them free housing - “it’s my right!” - and doctors should apparently work free for them too, or at least someone else should pay them - “it’s my right!” - and food should be free even though someone else has to grow and produce it. In basic reality terms that’s a soft society. You have no right you can’t secure yourself. Even laws don’t protect you, really. I may have the right not to be assaulted but that right isn’t worth much if I can’t defend myself against some wacko.

If you want something in life, go take it! You deserve only what you can get for yourself; anything else is charity.
People who have this attitude typically are people who have had help or advantages in their lives to get where they are but refuse to acknowledge it because they want to pat themselves on their back. So if you only deserve what you get for yourself do you think trust fund kids deserve the inheritance handed down or CEO's deserve getting money when the company the run is going out of business? The world is not black and white where you work hard and put effort in and you always succeed and if you are lazy you are poor there are many factors like upbringing, health, IQ that determine what a person can do.

Last edited by Storm Eagle; 09-07-2018 at 05:06 PM..
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:11 PM
 
7,279 posts, read 8,112,371 times
Reputation: 5366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Good news! Except it isn't news.

Poverty, meaning material deprivation, has been practically eliminated in the US. No one is hungry. No one is shelterless. No one is unclothed. The figures round to these conclusions.

Individuals who still lack food, clothing or shelter are either addicted to drugs or mentally defective. Poverty reduction programs can't do much to help these people. Neither can other programs.

50 years ago mental cases would be institutionalized. They were under someones care or at least attention.

50 years ago the drug industry was in its infancy. It's now big business. Organized, powerful, ruthless. It corrupts governments and law enforcement. It makes its own customers.

Most drugs come from Mexico. Cutting them off at the border is the only way to win this war.

But as for poverty of the 1964 variety, it's over. Of as close to over as it ever will be.
I tend to stay out of this sub-forum as so many people here are completely clueless. I recall the clueless blowhard roughly 12 months ago claiming the Permian Basin TX was out of oil and production would crater in a month or two..........instead we've seen month after month of record production with no end in sight.

However, your post hits the nail on the head as it were. Absolute poverty in the US approaches zero, as you say outside criminal activity, severe drug abuse, religiously driven cultish behavior, or incredibly stupid parents there is no starvation or want of important things. Nearly no one dies of starvation, nutrition based stunted growth nears zero. People who need medical care get it etc. etc.

What we have in the US is a massive dose of relative deprivation.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,197 posts, read 12,407,870 times
Reputation: 14768
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Jails are free to the occupants, and we gladly shoulder that collective expense. Are you not suggesting something just a little better than that for homeless? (I am)

That we don't reveals what we really value.

Will making something free really cause runaway demand for the product or service? Really?

What if we built these free houses in Mississippi, or wherever we could find the cheapest land with utility hookups? Build them dormitory style with shared bathrooms. Do you think the demand would skyrocket then?
Not to mention i read somewhere it costs $70k/yr to keep someone incarcerated.
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