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Old 08-29-2018, 09:57 AM
 
1,293 posts, read 288,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
That is factually inaccurate.

Arthur famously drew the the now-famous curve on a napkin at a Diner to explain a very simple concept that is ineluctably self-evident:
  • At an income tax rate of zero, no tax dollars are collected. No one who passed Econ 101 disagrees with this.
  • At an income tax rate of 100% (or higher), no one has an incentive to work, and thus no tax dollars are collected. No one who passed Econ 101 disagrees with this.
  • At every income tax rate greater than zero but less than 100%, some tax revenue is collected. No one who passed Econ 101 disagrees with this.
  • THEREFORE, as surely as night follows day, there exists at least one tax rate (possibly more than one) for which the total tax dollars collected will greatest. Anyone who passed geometry and calculus and econ 101 agrees.
That's it.

None of the above has been debunked. Not a single thing.

Debunked = left repeating same lie over and over. Ex. 'Trickle down doesn't work'. Actually, it does work.
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:51 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,023,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6oo9 View Post
Reality, it seems it's always on the left side of the curve: lower tax, lower revenue; higher tax, higher revenue. When tax rate gets really high, very few would file tax return but everyone keep on working to stay alive. It never gets to the point that no economic activities fearing being robbed 100% by the IRS.

Professor Laffer was naive and wrong. There is straight line curve for the Rich, and there is a tiny slope curve for the Poor. The Rich: pay taxes no matter what. The Poor: only pay up to 4%, then tax revenue on them became zero.
Well taxing the poor does not make much sense given that subsistence cannot be taxed. its like taxing a business with no revenue. The very definition of poor is nothing left over aka zero surplus. Its why Adam Smith saw a tax on salt as idiotic.

The problem I have with our tax system is how we tax the rich. We tax the working rich too much and their passive income too little.
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:54 AM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,023,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Debunked = left repeating same lie over and over. Ex. 'Trickle down doesn't work'. Actually, it does work.

The hole in trickle down is that lowing taxes on the wealthy does not necessarily lead to a demand for capital and labor. If the conditions allow for rent seeking behavior then essentially the rich have more money to monopolize and install more toll booths. Reagan stimulated the economy with deficits , which is a good thing when industrial utilization is low. However he left the door wide open for rent seeking.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,672 posts, read 9,420,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
It is far from obvious that no one has an incentive to work at a tax rate of 100%. There exist tribal societies even today that largely lack any form of quid-pro-quo compensation for labor. Yet people still hunt, harvest, cook, etc. in said societies. That said, government revenue in its own currency would indeed be zero since any quid-pro-quo exchange of labor for goods would take the form of bartering. So the Laffer Curve still stands (but for a slightly different reason).
Quid-pro-quo for labor is irrelevant, because taxation does not need to be in the form of currency. Your tribal example isn't compelling. Imagine those tribal societies of which you speak where either 0% or 100% of the fruit of their labor (hunting, gathering, harvesting, making clothing, etc) were confiscated ("taxed") by a national government, or by a wandering warrior tribe with better spears and and bows and arrows. There exists at least one confiscation rate at which the booty confiscated is maximized, and it is not at 0% nor at 100%.

But let's agree to ignore aboriginal societies and stick to the USA, or at least to mainstream economies.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,672 posts, read 9,420,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
The main problem with the "theory" is that the change in the rate of growth in nominal gdp from a lower tax rate is not going to yield enough added tax receipts to come close to offsetting the drop in the marginal corporate income tax rate from 35 to 21.
You have not identified any problem with the Laffer Curve at all. Note you've switched from total income tax rate to marginal income tax rate. Switching back to the total income tax rate, there exists at least one income tax rate where total tax revenue to the government is maximized. A rate of 35 or of 21 falls on the curve, and at least one rate between 0 and 100 non-inclusive maximizes government take.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,672 posts, read 9,420,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
Debunked = left repeating same lie over and over. Ex. 'Trickle down doesn't work'. Actually, it does work.
There is no such thing as "Trickle Down Economics." It is a straw-man against which the Progressive Left rallies its troops. The first known use of the phrase "trickle down" was by humorist Will Rogers back in the 1930s. It is not a part of economic thought. Go to any major research university and look at the faculty and you will never see a "Goldman Sachs Distinguished Service Professor of Trickle Down Economics." You will never see in the course catalog "Econ 257: Trickle Down Economics."

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
The hole in trickle down is ...
There is no hole in "trickle down" because it does not exist in the first place. It is not a thing. It is not an economic theory or area of study.

It is a content-free phrase repeated by the left to rally the weak-minded.
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:36 PM
 
17,749 posts, read 15,023,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post



There is no hole in "trickle down" because it does not exist in the first place. It is not a thing. It is not an economic theory or area of study.
Trickle down is merely a prerogative term to describe the idea of the wealthy using their surplus to build capital and employ labor. Those who use the term believe its a farce given that idea that money spent necessarily is industrially minded. The mob for example spends a good deal of disposable income.


Quote:
It is a content-free phrase repeated by the left to rally the weak-minded.
The concept of rent was as central to trade to the founding of political economy by the likes of Adam Smith and Ricardo. Thus perhaps the weak mind in this case could be you.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:38 PM
509
 
2,543 posts, read 3,744,627 times
Reputation: 2936
I am not sure about the Laffer curve....but I was in Russia in 1996.

The Russians were pissed that their total tax rate was about 50% and they were not to excited about working just to have the government take half their earnings. Quite frankly, they were NOT excited about working and paying 50% of their earnings to Moscow.

They asked how much I paid in taxes. Washington state is a lifestyle state. That is you pay taxes based on your lifestyle. Spend a lot of money and you pay a lot of taxes. Even with my "graduate school" lifestyle my Federal, state, and local taxes was close to 50%.

So I suspect there is truth in the Laffer Curve....the question is what percentage before you say **** ** it is not worth working.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:43 PM
 
8,278 posts, read 3,452,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
I am not sure about the Laffer curve....but I was in Russia in 1996.

The Russians were pissed that their total tax rate was about 50% and they were not to excited about working just to have the government take half their earnings. Quite frankly, they were NOT excited about working and paying 50% of their earnings to Moscow.

They asked how much I paid in taxes. Washington state is a lifestyle state. That is you pay taxes based on your lifestyle. Spend a lot of money and you pay a lot of taxes. Even with my "graduate school" lifestyle my Federal, state, and local taxes was close to 50%.

So I suspect there is truth in the Laffer Curve....the question is what percentage before you say **** ** it is not worth working.
I make most of my money these days with my investments. If gov't decides to take 90% then I will think really hard about what I'm doing!
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:54 PM
509
 
2,543 posts, read 3,744,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I make most of my money these days with my investments. If gov't decides to take 90% then I will think really hard about what I'm doing!

Don't move to Russia.
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