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Old 08-31-2018, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
19,655 posts, read 8,221,517 times
Reputation: 16089

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Trump is also proposing a "pay to be based on performance" plan for federal workers. The nerve of him - That he should expect results and adequate performance from federal government employees!
This could backfire on him--his performance has been highly inadequate. The nerve of the country who pays him--expecting him to actually work.
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Old 08-31-2018, 03:54 PM
 
4,542 posts, read 11,544,610 times
Reputation: 3063
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
1) "total compensation" is not pay or salary.

2) Government pay scales are not on the high side. How many people need to come forward and say they took a pay cut to get into government service" or they could make more in the private sector" for people to get that?

I agree if any worker anywhere doesn't like their pay they're free to look elsewhere. But that has nothing to do with the mistaken impression that "government pay" is on the high side...which is such a generalization it's meaningless.
"Federal Employees Earn 50% More Than The Private Workforce"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/money...b_8855508.html

"Rooting out and correcting mismanagement and overpaid employees within the federal ranks is extremely difficult thanks to various regulations and protections. According to a USA Today study, job security is so strong that workers at most federal agencies have a greater chance of dying on the job than they do of getting fired."

"Currently, over 300,000 federal employees earn over $100,000 in salary"

+ fat benefits.
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:02 PM
 
5,753 posts, read 3,038,463 times
Reputation: 15092
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy View Post
Sometimes you need to apply some business sense to government. Federal employee pay seems on the high side to me.
Based on what? In comparison to what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Everyone agrees federal employee total compensation is too high. Everyone except for federal employees and politicians who seek campaign contributions from federal employees.
When you say "everyone agree" don't you mean "everyone who has no actual knowledge Ö"

That's the problem with most of these government pay discussions, most of the claims made are based on heresy, and innuendo, and false comparisons.


The truth of the matter is:


a. There are very few true apples to apples comparison studies out there. The best ones seem to indicate that some non professional jobs are over market but that most professional jobs are, sometimes significantly under market.

and

b. Contrary to popular belief, the pay system is a performance base system. The real problem here is most of the general public has no basis to make any claim about performance, so they just grab hold of the most salivating stories out there as if they were normal occurrences.


The other matter is that government work still have to be done, and you pay significantly more for the contractor to be there than you do for a government person.
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:36 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 331,260 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary View Post
The problem is if the government doesn't have the employees to do the job, they hire contractors (who end up costing taxpayers more because they charge more). The more people vacate staff positions, the more we are going to rely on private contractors to get the work done.
This is false because Donald Trump is infamous for stiffing his contractors.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...uits/85297274/
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:39 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 331,260 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy View Post
"Federal Employees Earn 50% More Than The Private Workforce"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/money...b_8855508.html

"Rooting out and correcting mismanagement and overpaid employees within the federal ranks is extremely difficult thanks to various regulations and protections. According to a USA Today study, job security is so strong that workers at most federal agencies have a greater chance of dying on the job than they do of getting fired."

"Currently, over 300,000 federal employees earn over $100,000 in salary"

+ fat benefits.
FERS retirement is not what you think.

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-servi...n/computation/

I'd rather be a public sector union thug in a blue state, and then retire to a red state and live like a king.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:24 PM
509
 
2,543 posts, read 3,745,734 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Everyone agrees federal employee total compensation is too high. Everyone except for federal employees and politicians who seek campaign contributions from federal employees.
As a former Federal employee and private sector, that worked as a economist for the Federal government.

Federal employees at the blue-collar and clerical levels are significantly OVERPAID relative to the private sector. Professional employees working for the Federal government are significantly UNDERPAID relative to the private sector.

While working for the Federal government I received initial offers from the private sector for 25% above my salary. Several employees I knew did leave for 100% increase in salary in the private sector.

In the past, the Federal retiree program was called the "golden handcuffs". That is the Federal government underpaid you while you were working and overpaid you when you retired. If you left Federal service you LOST EVERYTHING that you paid into the retirement system. It happened to my wife. I stayed, counting the days until I got the keys to my handcuffs.

Ronald Reagan changed the retirement system to where Federal employees now pay into Social Security and now have the option to leave for the private sector without "LOSING EVERYTHING" if they left. This did have the effect of increasing Federal salaries for Federal employees. It made leaving the Federal government no longer meant a significant financial penalty.

Federal employees work for YOU. Really the people of this country set the pay compensation scales and working conditions. In todays world, a Federal employee can decide to stay or leave without a significant penalty in their financial net worth.

I am not sure what the appropriate Federal wage scale is for workers......but if you want to be a astronaut, forest ranger, soldier, and other jobs unique to Federal employment you will probably accept a lower salary just to have the job you have always dreamed about. If you are a doctor, IT professional, etc. you probably will leave in a heartbeat.

The decision belong to Congress and the American people on how much to pay federal workers and the conditions they work under....... Then the Federal employees can make the decision to stay or leave.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
1,651 posts, read 1,886,485 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
As a former Federal employee and private sector, that worked as a economist for the Federal government.

Federal employees at the blue-collar and clerical levels are significantly OVERPAID relative to the private sector. Professional employees working for the Federal government are significantly UNDERPAID relative to the private sector.

While working for the Federal government I received initial offers from the private sector for 25% above my salary. Several employees I knew did leave for 100% increase in salary in the private sector.

In the past, the Federal retiree program was called the "golden handcuffs". That is the Federal government underpaid you while you were working and overpaid you when you retired. If you left Federal service you LOST EVERYTHING that you paid into the retirement system. It happened to my wife. I stayed, counting the days until I got the keys to my handcuffs.

Ronald Reagan changed the retirement system to where Federal employees now pay into Social Security and now have the option to leave for the private sector without "LOSING EVERYTHING" if they left. This did have the effect of increasing Federal salaries for Federal employees. It made leaving the Federal government no longer meant a significant financial penalty.

Federal employees work for YOU. Really the people of this country set the pay compensation scales and working conditions. In todays world, a Federal employee can decide to stay or leave without a significant penalty in their financial net worth.

I am not sure what the appropriate Federal wage scale is for workers......but if you want to be a astronaut, forest ranger, soldier, and other jobs unique to Federal employment you will probably accept a lower salary just to have the job you have always dreamed about. If you are a doctor, IT professional, etc. you probably will leave in a heartbeat.

The decision belong to Congress and the American people on how much to pay federal workers and the conditions they work under....... Then the Federal employees can make the decision to stay or leave.
This is all pretty accurate. I worked in government for 10 years and then left for a 25% INCREASE in pay, which soon after led to ANOTHER 25% increase in pay within 3 years. If I'd stayed I'd be making maybe 10% more than I was then in COLA increases. Yes at least I did get to keep my retirement contributions and rolled it into an IRA account. Agree with your assertion that the higher level professional positions are significantly underpaid (I'm proof) whereas as the lower level positions are overpaid compared to their private sector counterparts.
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:54 PM
 
6,997 posts, read 6,632,415 times
Reputation: 5274
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy View Post
"Federal Employees Earn 50% More Than The Private Workforce"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/money...b_8855508.html

"Rooting out and correcting mismanagement and overpaid employees within the federal ranks is extremely difficult thanks to various regulations and protections. According to a USA Today study, job security is so strong that workers at most federal agencies have a greater chance of dying on the job than they do of getting fired."

"Currently, over 300,000 federal employees earn over $100,000 in salary"

+ fat benefits.
That private workforce sample isn't limited to federal contractors. From the same site, they found private contractors are paid much more.

Quote:
The Project On Government Oversight found that the federal government pays private contractors on average 1.83 times more than it pays its own employees for the same work, according to the groupís study released yesterday.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/..._n_962176.html

If they brought the contractors' positions back into the federal government, the federal workforce would be younger and paid less. One of the problems with the federal government is that they have too many senior people supervising the contractors.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:49 PM
 
Location: USA
16,566 posts, read 16,226,647 times
Reputation: 12523
Trump is keeping his campaign promises, good for him
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Old 08-31-2018, 09:59 PM
 
16,491 posts, read 17,513,441 times
Reputation: 23546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
This could backfire on him--his performance has been highly inadequate. The nerve of the country who pays him--expecting him to actually work.

You do know he donates his paycheck away..........


https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ake-no-salary/
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