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Old 09-06-2018, 09:52 AM
 
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Comparison of Import Certificates and Tariffs:

I'm among the proponents of the Wikipedia's described version of an “Import Certificates”.

[Import Certificate policy does, as tariffs should favor their own nation and pass their trade policy's net costs on to their nation's import purchasers.* This is not contrary to the concepts of “most favored nation” agreements.
We, (as any sovereign nation), can be expected to retaliate against being treated by any other sovereignty as lesser favored among nations foreign to them.
Regardless of nations' trade policies, such occurrences have, and suppose will be encountered among nations.]
Regardless of nations' trade policies, If the Import Certificate nation's trade policy is self—funded and the entire net costs are passed on to the nation's import purchasers.

Unlike tariffs, REGARDLESS of how small of price additions to USA purchasers of imported goods, Import Certificate policy will very significantly reduce, if not entirely eliminate USA's chronic annual trade deficits of goods while increasing our domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

USA's Import certificate's' higher global market price rates are reflected as increased prices to USA purchasers of imports. Unlike tariffs, to the extent that those global prices reflect market behavior, they serve as an indirect, but effective price subsidy of USA imports at no particular cost to anyone.

Unlike tariffs, Import Certificate policy is substantially more sensitive to market conditions rather than government determinations.* Other than favoring USA goods, it does not discriminate regarding other considerations, (i.e. it does not unnecessarily “upset” markets).

Refer to Wikipedia's Import Certificates article.
Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:54 AM
 
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Do you happen to have a list of countries that have successfully used import certificates in a modern economy?
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:49 PM
 
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Didn't you try another thread on the same subject like a month ago?

Import certificates are a stupid idea. Hence why they're not used.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Comparison of Import Certificates and Tariffs:

I'm among the proponents of the Wikipedia's described version of an “Import Certificates”.
Still peddling the same nonsense?

I guess some people never learn.

$1 of imports does not generate $1 of GDP.

$1 of imports always generates far more GDP, so that even if you subtract the cost of the imports, you're financially and economically far better-off.

No business can possibly survive selling products for less than what it costs to produce them.

Someone importing $7,000 worth of teak wood will create 10 teak wood dining room tables that wholesale at about $1,500.

They just generated $15,000 in GDP, and if you subtract the $7,000, then you still have an $8,000 net positive gain in GDP.

And the retailers will sell those teak wood dining tables for $3,500 to $4,500 each, generating another $35,000 to $45,000 in GDP.

In total, $50,000 to $60,000 in GDP has been created.

Even if you subtract the $7,000 you still have a net positive GDP gain of $43,000 to $53,000.

It's amazing how some people just can't wrap their brains around reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Do you happen to have a list of countries that have successfully used import certificates in a modern economy?
Of course, he doesn't. No country would be dumb enough to try it.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Didn't you try another thread on the same subject like a month ago?

Import certificates are a stupid idea. Hence why they're not used.
LordSquidworth and ThatsRight19, many years ago I read of a new sales tax concept. I thought it had good points of merit, but I doubted that any government would take the trouble to change the conventional sales tax methods. Since then I took some courses, worked at some jobs, served a military hitch and didn't think much about foreign politics.

Then one day, while reading of the European common market, I learned that it works much better because of the value added, VAT method. Outside of the United States, many nations have adopted the superior new method of sales tax administration.

One and a half thousand years after the birth of Christ, the first nation adopted a democratic republic form of government. It didn't then just become a superior concept, but it took the world more than two thousand years for a nation to recognize the superiority of democracy. In some places, the concept's not now recognized or the governments pretend to practice the concept.

I don't know if there were earlier published descriptions of the Import Certificate policy. The first publication of the superior trade policy concept that I'm aware of was in 2003. It was first proposed in the 2006 session of the U.S. Senate. It has not yet been adopted by any nation.

I'm among the proponents of two particular economic concepts, the federal minimum wage rate annually adjusted to retain its purchasing power, and the Import Certificate policy.

I'm an old man and reasonably confident within my lifetime, (if I don't die accidentally), USA's federal minimum wage rate's purchasing power will be significantly increased and thereafter will be annually adjusted to retain its purchasing power.
I'm confident USA will enact a single payer form of federal medical insurance covering all of its citizens, but it may not be in my lifetime.

I'm fully confident that Import Certificate policy would, for the USA be, superior to pure free trade or a tariff trade policy. I'm less confident that some nation experiencing chronic annual trade deficits, will finally adopt an Import Certificate policy and due to its success, other nations will do the same. Because USA isn't an Import Certificate nation, we Who have the greatest trade deficits, suffer the greatest losses GDP and numbers of jobs.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:04 PM
 
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Mircea, a nation's net balance of trade contributes to the nation's GDP. An annual trade surplus contributes, or a trade deficit reduces their nation's annual GDP. USA has had chronic annual trade deficits in excess of the past half-century.

You are describing an individual enterprise's commercial operation. It is assumed that individual enterprises conduct their commercial affairs in a manner that's most beneficial to themselves. But what's most beneficial to individual enterprises are not necessarily to the best interests of the nation.
Many laws in the USA prohibit or limit enterprises' practices that are identified as contrary to our society's economic and/or safety, and/or our social well being.

Trade deficits indicate that our nation has purchased more products than we produced which consequentially reduces our GDP and number of jobs more than otherwise. An enterprise can reduce their labor costs by outsourcing from beyond our nation's borders and thus increase their net profits. But the aggregate consequences of an annual trade deficit is less GDP and jobs than otherwise. This is net detrimental to our national economy.

Import Certificate policy does not prevent importing of goods, but it does not tolerate their nation suffering an annual trade deficit of goods. It cannot prevent an item from being imported if there's an effective USA demand for that item. It favors USA products. It does not discriminate among industries, enterprises, types of goods, or among foreign nations. It would increase USA's GDP and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.
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Old 09-07-2018, 04:31 AM
 
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Mircea, the entire economic differences between imported and domestic produced goods occur during the production and delivery of the goods to the USA. The distribution, sales, repairs, and maintenance, and updating services are similar for similar domestic or foreign produced vehicles. They are not, and should not be attributed to the character of imported or domestic produced vehicles.

The importation of foreign finished products crowd out the sales of similar USA products sold within USA's domestic marketplaces.

In the example you provided, $700 of imported teak wood to produce a USA FOB $1,500 table has been increased by the USA furniture manufacturer @ $800/per unit from the point of the USA's furniture factory's shipping dock and that table may retail at or near $3,000.

But almost all of USA's imports are finished rather than production supporting goods. The opposite of your example occurs if USA manufactured components are shipped to and finished in Mexico, before returning to the USA as finished assembled components or entirely finished products. Import Certificate policy is not concerned with details that are determined by enterprises.

Exporters of goods may request, (they're not required) to have their goods assessed and pay the federal Import Certificate fee rate based upon that assessment. Their motivation is to acquire the valuable transferable certificates with face values reflecting the assessed values of their goods.

Importers of goods are required to acquire and surrender transferable certificates with face values that cover the assessed values of their imported goods. Surrendered certificates are canceled; they're not reusable.
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Old 09-07-2018, 06:50 AM
 
1,688 posts, read 792,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Mircea, the entire economic differences between imported and domestic produced goods occur during the production and delivery of the goods to the USA. The distribution, sales, repairs, and maintenance, and updating services are similar for similar domestic or foreign produced vehicles. They are not, and should not be attributed to the character of imported or domestic produced vehicles.

The importation of foreign finished products crowd out the sales of similar USA products sold within USA's domestic marketplaces.

In the example you provided, $700 of imported teak wood to produce a USA FOB $1,500 table has been increased by the USA furniture manufacturer @ $800/per unit from the point of the USA's furniture factory's shipping dock and that table may retail at or near $3,000.

But almost all of USA's imports are finished rather than production supporting goods. The opposite of your example occurs if USA manufactured components are shipped to and finished in Mexico, before returning to the USA as finished assembled components or entirely finished products. Import Certificate policy is not concerned with details that are determined by enterprises.

Exporters of goods may request, (they're not required) to have their goods assessed and pay the federal Import Certificate fee rate based upon that assessment. Their motivation is to acquire the valuable transferable certificates with face values reflecting the assessed values of their goods.

Importers of goods are required to acquire and surrender transferable certificates with face values that cover the assessed values of their imported goods. Surrendered certificates are canceled; they're not reusable.
Overall, this is one of the stupidest ideas ever. Completely and utterly unworkable, and a detriment to the US economy. More proof that Warren Buffet is a senile, doddering fool. The inflationary aspects alone are frightening, as are the costs imposed on entities that need products that are not made in the United States at all. We see this now in steel, where rent seeking steel companies in the US claim to make products made elsewhere, although the US products are nowhere near the same, and are not available in suitable quantities in any sort of reasonable time frame.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
Overall, this is one of the stupidest ideas ever. Completely and utterly unworkable, and a detriment to the US economy. More proof that Warren Buffet is a senile, doddering fool. The inflationary aspects alone are frightening, as are the costs imposed on entities that need products that are not made in the United States at all. We see this now in steel, where rent seeking steel companies in the US claim to make products made elsewhere, although the US products are nowhere near the same, and are not available in suitable quantities in any sort of reasonable time frame.
WRM20, I'm among the proponents of the improved policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. Your criticism of Warren Buffett, or of Trump's tariffs are immaterial to the concept of Import Certificates.

How or why do you perceive Import Certificate concept to be “unworkable" and a net "detriment to the U.S. economy”? All spending of wealth is to some extent "inflationary". How and why do you perceive Import Certificate policy to be particularly inflationary?
I'm prepared to discuss the Import Certificate's superiority to tariffs, or pure free trade, or any other trade policy concepts.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
WRM20, I'm among the proponents of the improved policy described within Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. Your criticism of Warren Buffett, or of Trump's tariffs are immaterial to the concept of Import Certificates.

How or why do you perceive Import Certificate concept to be “unworkable" and a net "detriment to the U.S. economy”? All spending of wealth is to some extent "inflationary". How and why do you perceive Import Certificate policy to be particularly inflationary?
I'm prepared to discuss the Import Certificate's superiority to tariffs, or pure free trade, or any other trade policy concepts.
Did you find that list of countries yet?
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