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Old 09-28-2018, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
5,281 posts, read 4,560,668 times
Reputation: 13274

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I'm a teacher and I'm sometimes uncomfortable with those articles about those who can't get by on their salary. Recently in our local paper there was one such example. She was supporting adult children and grandchildren. She had a house payment and student loans and other debt. It seemed to me that she had made some choices in life that were not always in her best interest and did not make enough money to support the consequences of those choices. Yet the point of the article was: She didn't make enough money because her salary is low.

I'm divorced, barely hanging on to my house. I am not entitled to that house. We could have lived in a 2 bedroom apartment. I'm well aware I could have made different lifestyle choices and had the money go farther. I have two children. i purposely stopped at two because I could see divorce looming in the future and I was aware of the added responsibility. I don't have a new car or nice decor. I shop at thrift stores and cut my own hair.

I know I work hard and I frequently work far more than 40 hours per week. I see many of my peers do the same. We work hard because we love what we do. I don't think I am well compensated for my level of education or for what I do but the fact that I struggle some months is NOT the fault of the salary. It is due to my lifestyle choices.

My state has low teacher pay and low educational attainment. We DO need help. I just think we need to be careful about the poster people we select to represent us.
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Old 09-28-2018, 09:27 PM
 
Location: The World
3,012 posts, read 1,809,321 times
Reputation: 7773
I didn't think that teaching was ever considered to be a particularly high-paying profession. It's certainly not perfect, but although they aren't necessarily well-paid, teachers do generally get some great perks -- summers off, much more time off for holidays, state benefits, pensions...

There's a reason why it's always been a popular job choice for women/mothers with spouses who have higher-paying jobs...it certainly pays enough to make it worth it for the woman to work outside the home, but it offers perks for mothers that most jobs don't, such as not having to make too many arrangements for child care...

There are also a ton of scholarship and grant opportunities for teachers. There are also multiple student loan forgiveness programs. As has been already mentioned in this thread, the degree program isn't as challenging as it is for many industries. Teachers can go to an affordable state school on a relatively easy program and end up with no student loan debt, which isn't the case for many.

It's not for everyone, and it's certainly not for those who want to be wealthy. But it can provide a reasonable middle-class existence for most, depending on the city that they choose to live in (isn't that true for most anyone?) and their own lifestyle (again, everyone...)....along with some perks that many don't get.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:47 AM
 
3,716 posts, read 1,666,317 times
Reputation: 5091
Any teacher that needs advice on how to get by on $100,000: call me. We've gotten by on less for years.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
10,638 posts, read 3,311,331 times
Reputation: 12748
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8 View Post
"Simply because we pay taxes"? It's coming directly from our pockets to theirs, so YES, their salary/benefits if overcompensated does concern me. Our Kindergarten teachers here even make over $130k. It's all public information. And it directly affects us having to pay the $9.5k in school taxes alone WITH REAL MONEY every year. So ask me again why I shouldn't be concerned.

Oh yeah, we also pay $6k in general taxes too... cops' $150k+ salaries are in there. Sanitation workers' $100k+. Pensions are huge.

But no... why should we care at all...?
Thatís the problem in Illinois too! Pensions are high for these types of government jobs, teachers, police, etc. so taxes are high. Illinois is in s hole they canít get out of and people are leaving because they are getting taxed out. Move over the border to Indiana and the state is fiscally sound. Taxes are low and teachers make an OK living. I still think they need to make more AND SHOULD, but pay for these jobs definitely depends on the COL of that state just as in most (not all) jobs. My DH would make half of what he does if he worked in Florida versus Chicago as a Mechanical Engineer.
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Old 09-29-2018, 07:35 AM
 
8,093 posts, read 4,446,122 times
Reputation: 8716
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
$100k in Knoxville TN and you're upper middle class where $100k in SF and you're just barely getting by.
why is that, why do other places have outrangeous COL. alsaka I could understand, but san fran ?
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:04 AM
 
3,700 posts, read 3,026,594 times
Reputation: 10007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8 View Post
"Simply because we pay taxes"? It's coming directly from our pockets to theirs, so YES, their salary/benefits if overcompensated does concern me. Our Kindergarten teachers here even make over $130k. It's all public information. And it directly affects us having to pay the $9.5k in school taxes alone WITH REAL MONEY every year. So ask me again why I shouldn't be concerned.

Oh yeah, we also pay $6k in general taxes too... cops' $150k+ salaries are in there. Sanitation workers' $100k+. Pensions are huge.

But no... why should we care at all...?
You're paying for someone's payroll every time you shop, but you think you can "demand" a say in public employee compensation levels because the tax base supports that compensation. When you are out shopping and the prices are reflecting a disagreeable labor compensation, you can always shop somewhere else if you feel you are paying too much. I wouldn't suggest doing that with regard to your public sector compensation lament.

In the case of public employees wages being thought of as too high: You certainly can't obtain your own private security force to replace the "too highly paid police", will you hire your own fire protection force, in case the local firemen are taking too much of your money? Will you teach your children without any resources utilized from the public form?

You can't possibly think that you can get better service from those public entities from lowering the salaries of the workers, do you? When workers aren't compensated at levels which allow them to be tax paying contributors instead of takers, then those people are going to become a cost burden upon society. People in your circle of thought would then denigrate those people for "taking your money" and a mighty hue and cry would result from your tax paying pain. When you and your tribe become successful at smashing the wage/benefit structure of public employee compensation you may find yourself needing to go to school, learning to teach children, fight fires, police the neighborhood, and, in your spare time, get out the paving machine and re-do the roads..

I pay taxes, I support workers rights to organize, I haven't ever been in a public service job but I support those workers rights to organize the same as workers would in the private sector. Once my money goes into the public coffers I have relinquished my control of those dollars to the federal, state, and local governments, we live in a republican form here so my representatives will determine the budget for spending, period. You, Joe Blow, don't have any direct path, other than voting, to a say in that budget. I worked for forty seven years and paid taxes throughout that time, I'm now retired, living on my pension, SS, IRA's, and still paying taxes. I support public employees, and I'll spend much less on myself if I have to, in order to continue that support.

PS You might find yourself more capable of paying for public services if you could get a break on those Wall Street compensation figures, paying for those salaries every time you shop is costing you wayyy too much, so, where's your democracy angle in all of that? Food for thought: Public employees are taxpayers also..
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:27 AM
 
10,696 posts, read 20,119,835 times
Reputation: 9849
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
You're paying for someone's payroll every time you shop, but you think you can "demand" a say in public employee compensation levels because the tax base supports that compensation. When you are out shopping and the prices are reflecting a disagreeable labor compensation, you can always shop somewhere else if you feel you are paying too much. I wouldn't suggest doing that with regard to your public sector compensation lament.

In the case of public employees wages being thought of as too high: You certainly can't obtain your own private security force to replace the "too highly paid police", will you hire your own fire protection force, in case the local firemen are taking too much of your money? Will you teach your children without any resources utilized from the public form?

You can't possibly think that you can get better service from those public entities from lowering the salaries of the workers, do you? When workers aren't compensated at levels which allow them to be tax paying contributors instead of takers, then those people are going to become a cost burden upon society. People in your circle of thought would then denigrate those people for "taking your money" and a mighty hue and cry would result from your tax paying pain. When you and your tribe become successful at smashing the wage/benefit structure of public employee compensation you may find yourself needing to go to school, learning to teach children, fight fires, police the neighborhood, and, in your spare time, get out the paving machine and re-do the roads..

I pay taxes, I support workers rights to organize, I haven't ever been in a public service job but I support those workers rights to organize the same as workers would in the private sector. Once my money goes into the public coffers I have relinquished my control of those dollars to the federal, state, and local governments, we live in a republican form here so my representatives will determine the budget for spending, period. You, Joe Blow, don't have any direct path, other than voting, to a say in that budget. I worked for forty seven years and paid taxes throughout that time, I'm now retired, living on my pension, SS, IRA's, and still paying taxes. I support public employees, and I'll spend much less on myself if I have to, in order to continue that support.

PS You might find yourself more capable of paying for public services if you could get a break on those Wall Street compensation figures, paying for those salaries every time you shop is costing you wayyy too much, so, where's your democracy angle in all of that? Food for thought: Public employees are taxpayers also..
There are a couple issues with your line of thinking.

First when public workers organize they aren't like a private sector employee. These public employees have a de facto monopoly on the work and as such their wages can be unlinked from market rates. Example, as you state there is no alternative to the police, firefighters, DMV, etc. etc.

Second typically what ends up happening is the unions that represent the public employees band together and form PACs that support politicians who in turn support them. But support I mean vote in additional raise/benefit packages. This has been a very long standing problem in places like NJ and IL. I know specifically in NJ the teachers union was caught scheming with a previous governor negotiating raises before voting to support him.

There is a huge difference in paying people so little they become a burden on society and overpaying by a factor of two or three with golden pensions to boot. I'm pro union but very anti public sector union. Nothing good can come of it.
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA
3,088 posts, read 6,627,609 times
Reputation: 7126
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
One of the teachers profiled is being paid over $100,000 per year. Is that really not enough? Even with a rent and a kid that might be enough.
I'm a retired teacher who left the profession in 2017. My salary that last year was $110,000. That is not a high salary in southern California at all, trust me. It would be fine in rural Kansas or South Dakota, but it's not a particularly high salary at all in CA. But reading this article makes me think some of these people aren't managing their money very well. No teacher I ever knew had to donate blood to make a few extra bucks. Something's not quite adding up here.
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA
3,088 posts, read 6,627,609 times
Reputation: 7126
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
Thatís the problem in Illinois too! Pensions are high for these types of government jobs, teachers, police, etc. so taxes are high.
I guess most people still don't get it that teachers pay into their pensions! I don't know whether retired police or firemen do, but teachers do. Every month $880 was taken out of my teacher's check and that went to my retirement. I sure could have used that money and invested it myself, but that was not (and is not) an option for any teacher in California.
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Old 09-30-2018, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA
3,088 posts, read 6,627,609 times
Reputation: 7126
Quote:
Originally Posted by krug View Post
No matter where you live, if you are a teacher making 100K, you are living high on the hog.
Sorry, this is simply untrue! Do you live in California? Where I worked as a teacher, the cheapest home you could possibly get was $850,000 and that's for a 400 sq foot tiny house on wheels. Gas was $4.00 a gallon, and utilities and electricity are four times what they are in other states. Oh, and my property taxes were $10,500 a year and my house was a 1600 sq foot tract house.

I was a teacher who made 100K and I never lived high on the hog, nor did any of my colleagues. Come to California and see how little a hundred grand takes you.
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