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Old 09-28-2018, 11:18 AM
 
8,293 posts, read 3,456,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Oh, nonsense. There most certainly are loans in which the interest rate is zero percent, which is what the term means. If you're going to stretch way over and claim it means "no buying costs," you'd be correct, but arguing that this element of dealer sales tactics doesn't exist is just self-cancelling nonsense.

No one's arguing that it's not usually (often) (always) part of a bigger package of costs and subsidies to the dealer meaning the buyer is probably getting screwed. That's a given. But just waving your hands and saying it doesn't exist is useless babble.
We made our best deal on my wife's 2015 Lincoln, then asked and got 0% for 60 months. Each payment was/is 1/60 of the total. No other gotyas or fees. Three years later we are paying with cheaper dollars.
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
We made our best deal on my wife's 2015 Lincoln, then asked and got 0% for 60 months. Each payment was/is 1/60 of the total. No other gotyas or fees. Three years later we are paying with cheaper dollars.
Pivots on "best deal." And once the deal crossed the blue line, the dealer was happy to throw in 'freebies,' as they always will, because the buyer then runs out into the world as a one-man marketing machine telling everyone what a great deal they got. "They threw in premium floor mats just because we asked for them! Win!"
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:22 PM
 
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Dealers here don't mind taking a loss on car deals, the manufacturer gives them bonuses on moving cars so they make it up at bonus time

No clue how the manufacturer recoups itself though
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
Dealers here don't mind taking a loss on car deals, the manufacturer gives them bonuses on moving cars so they make it up at bonus time

No clue how the manufacturer recoups itself though
No one is taking a loss on anything here.

The dealer likely makes very close to the same net on a "below cost" vehicle that he does on any normal sale (excluding the stupid-buyer jackpot sales). Manufacturer bonuses and incentives aren't always completely out of the maker's bottom line and may consist of some financial offset and "brownie points" on quicker deliveries, larger allotment of hot models, bigger co-marketing contributions etc. It's hard to call these expenditures "losses" since they're money that would likely be spent otherwise, just in different directions. And, of course, many kinds of shortfalls in sales revenue can be accounted for at tax time.

Dealers are not completely independent entities. While they have to make their money like any franchise, big mama Ford or GM and the whole network of dealerships and sales supports every individual lot. The only time there are real losses are on some small percentage of cars that don't appeal to buyers (bad color combo, lacking one major option or another, that kind of thing) or on gross overproduction/overstock of a model in which case yes, the manufacturer earns less but not at the net expense of any dealers moving them.

It's just the next meta-level in the shell game that keeps consumers from getting more than close to truly transparent buying and genuinely good deals.

Never cry for a dealer who says he's taking a bath on a sale or a model. He's not. Merely getting his poor little toesies wet.
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Old 09-28-2018, 12:58 PM
 
1,011 posts, read 527,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
No clue how the manufacturer recoups itself though
On some cars we don't. Believe me, there are some vehicles that have a very slim profit margin for the manufacturers and they sometimes have negative margins in a high incentive month. Disregard the other poster, manufacturer incentives absolutely do exist and they absolutely cut down on our profitability. Also, to be clear, I am talking about what goes on at the OEM level, not the dealership.
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clawsondude View Post
On some cars we don't. Believe me, there are some vehicles that have a very slim profit margin for the manufacturers and they sometimes have negative margins in a high incentive month. Disregard the other poster, manufacturer incentives absolutely do exist and they absolutely cut down on our profitability. Also, to be clear, I am talking about what goes on at the OEM level, not the dealership.
*sob* Stop it, you're breaking my heart.

In a world of US makers who have converted their lines to nothing but the highest-margin models (trucks and ninety kinds of 'UVs), it's downright absurdist to whine about how "some vehicles" go out the door without paying for any Fourteenth Floor oak paneling.

Every business has varying margin on products. Most businesses don't exist - not just run on, but exist - on a fixed effort to deceive, delude and mislead their buyers. It's like the mob whining about the cost of bullets that miss someone.
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:13 PM
 
8,293 posts, read 3,456,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Pivots on "best deal." And once the deal crossed the blue line, the dealer was happy to throw in 'freebies,' as they always will, because the buyer then runs out into the world as a one-man marketing machine telling everyone what a great deal they got. "They threw in premium floor mats just because we asked for them! Win!"
In this case we first walked, and they threw in the tech package. BSM, Lane assist, pre-collision, cross traffic and adaptive cruise. Items at the time we didn't want. Today I'd never buy a vehicle without these.
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
In this case we first walked, and they threw in the tech package. BSM, Lane assist, pre-collision, cross traffic and adaptive cruise. Items at the time we didn't want. Today I'd never buy a vehicle without these.
I'm sure you got a fabulous deal. With zero percent, even. But it is just your say-so, here.

Consider that such packages (along with things like nav and rear-seat entertainment) tend to list for significant $k's and actually cost a small fraction of that. They are monster profit padding, but can be thrown in like a white chip in a Vegas poker game.

My '07 Odyssey has pretty much every option, far more than I would ever seek, but I got a good price on it in early 2010. I looked up the components. The nav was something like $4500. The DVD system, $2800. One or two luxury packages, $2k each. The price I paid reflected not one dollar for these premium options - I would have paid the same price for a vehicle without them. That's pretty much the case if you run car costs on pricing sites. Does that tell you something about their real cost and value in sales?
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:14 PM
 
8,293 posts, read 3,456,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
I'm sure you got a fabulous deal. With zero percent, even. But it is just your say-so, here.

Consider that such packages (along with things like nav and rear-seat entertainment) tend to list for significant $k's and actually cost a small fraction of that. They are monster profit padding, but can be thrown in like a white chip in a Vegas poker game.

My '07 Odyssey has pretty much every option, far more than I would ever seek, but I got a good price on it in early 2010. I looked up the components. The nav was something like $4500. The DVD system, $2800. One or two luxury packages, $2k each. The price I paid reflected not one dollar for these premium options - I would have paid the same price for a vehicle without them. That's pretty much the case if you run car costs on pricing sites. Does that tell you something about their real cost and value in sales?
I got a good deal, not a fabulous deal. Now with my 1988 Continental I got a fabulous deal.

How do I know?

The dealer called me the next day and told me I ripped him off!

lol
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:46 PM
 
4,325 posts, read 5,274,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22003yo View Post
They may not discount cash, but you're more than likely you could have gotten a better deal had you gone somewhere else. I know the HVAC biz pretty well, and all the companies I see offering 0% financing are usually really expensive to start with. The smaller contractors want to be paid cash, but they can be up to 50% cheaper than the large companies. For $28,000 that must have been quite the job! An average size home running a single zone system is usually around $5k - $7k to replace.
This engagement ring was already very affordable. The only one of a similar style my GF liked was Tacori, about $14,000, this was just $7,500 so really not bad and itís what she wanted so thatís important.

I wouldnít even say the HVAC was offering this, though. They just were able to work with Wells Fargo finance and they issued me a credit card for home improvements that had a $30,000 limit, so it was done basically through a new card. The HVAC wasnít carrying the loan, nor was it offered to me upfront as I had multiple bids.

I donít want to be mean but what the average person accepts for HVAC is total garbage and doesnít even seem like first world technology to me. I demand that my home be the exact temperature I tell it to be at ALL times, regardless of whether itís -20 out or 120, I shouldnít even be aware of the outside temperature. Thatís why Iím inside! For a variable system like mine, which is state of the art, it can use any amount of power in 1% increments so if it needs 54% power to keep the house cool thatís exactly what it uses and nothing more. Itís also the best energy efficiency, because of that, so itís not turning itself on and off, which gives you a house that gets cold, then hot, then cold over and over as it struggles to maintain a temperature.

Ours is also dual zone just by floor, itís a 3 story house, they didnít duct the basement. So that was itís own ductless minisplit system which by itself is like $6,000 or so including install. But then you have separate electrical wiring and permits required to run the electrical where we needed the unit to hang from the outdoors. So it was a project. In a small condo, a $5-7K system will often work if itís not a high rise. Our high rise HVAC was about a $15,000 replacement (I didnít pay, thank god for home warranty when it failed).
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