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Old 09-28-2018, 03:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,680 posts, read 28,576,098 times
Reputation: 14619

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quietude seems like a real expert on how nobody gets a good deal if you are getting 0% financing. at least he really thinks so.

i feel like i can get the same price as someone not getting the 0% and yet i get the 0%. companies offer discounts all of the time and they make less money on the people who use them. its marketing and savings. i find his position silly but man is he committed to telling everyone how right he is.
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The dealer called me the next day and told me I ripped him off!
And for the cost of a phone call and a little fake humility, you've been telling this story for 30 years, reinforcing the idea that wily Joe Q. Consumer can 'win' against dealers.

I've bought about 30 cars in my life, and only one time did I flat-out win such an arm-wrestling match. It was for $200 and probably came equally from dealer profit an the salesman's pocket.

(The car, a Volvo 240D, later saved the life of my toddler daughter and, unfortunately, her idiot mother. I considered for a time sending the salesman the $200.)
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
quietude seems like a real expert on how nobody gets a good deal if you are getting 0% financing. at least he really thinks so.
You miss the point. It can be said that no one gets a good deal from an auto dealership, regardless of what phantom and shell-game terms are part of the transaction.

My field is analytical consumer economics, by the way. Some would indeed consider that relevant expertise.
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Old 09-28-2018, 05:04 PM
 
8,293 posts, read 3,456,454 times
Reputation: 1586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
And for the cost of a phone call and a little fake humility, you've been telling this story for 30 years, reinforcing the idea that wily Joe Q. Consumer can 'win' against dealers.

I've bought about 30 cars in my life, and only one time did I flat-out win such an arm-wrestling match. It was for $200 and probably came equally from dealer profit an the salesman's pocket.

(The car, a Volvo 240D, later saved the life of my toddler daughter and, unfortunately, her idiot mother. I considered for a time sending the salesman the $200.)
I was embarrassed by it. But of course I didn't give any money back.

My 1984 Merkur came with a 2 year buy back warranty from Ford, depreciation based on the Mercedes 190. The car was beyond a lemon and we were to trade it on a Continental at 2 years. One of my patients was the car salesman.

He told me Ford was to give me X number of dollars for the trade in. - But somehow the cost on the Lincoln was not very negotiable. As I recall the X was in the teens and the Lincoln was like $24K or thereabouts.

So I called the dealer in the next town - gave him the figures - and he said could do $4K better! So Sunday evening I drove it over and we did the deal.

Monday he calls me that the number I gave him on the trade in was +$4K over what Ford tells him.

Turned out my patient was too embarrassed to give me the real numbers - thus the $4K differential. The small print said 'based on' the Mercedes 190, not the 'same as'. The dealer in the next town was as dumb as I was and never confirmed the numbers!
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Old 09-28-2018, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Turned out my patient was too embarrassed to give me the real numbers - thus the $4K differential. The small print said 'based on' the Mercedes 190, not the 'same as'. The dealer in the next town was as dumb as I was and never confirmed the numbers!
I suppose they do shoot themselves in the foot occasionally. Lucky you!
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:07 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,680 posts, read 28,576,098 times
Reputation: 14619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You miss the point. It can be said that no one gets a good deal from an auto dealership, regardless of what phantom and shell-game terms are part of the transaction.

My field is analytical consumer economics, by the way. Some would indeed consider that relevant expertise.
why can it be said that nobody gets a good deal? are their margins so amazing?

i believe you told some story about how you were tricked by a car dealer so i got the feeling that you arent an expert on this.
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
why can it be said that nobody gets a good deal? are their margins so amazing?
We'd have to start a long ways back in the chain of events. Very short form, you getting a car for $1000 less than the next guy does not in any way mean you got a good deal.

Quote:
i believe you told some story about how you were tricked by a car dealer so i got the feeling that you arent an expert on this.
RFC.

I've been writing about this topic (among many other related ones) for at least two decades and my "rules" have only gotten more stringent as time, research and experience drive them.

The incident was less than a year ago, and happened because I broke some of those rules; it was a close family member in a crisis and I trusted them a bit too much on the homework part. That someone who is an expert on these kind of consumer transactions and relationships, who has considerable financial and legal leverage on hand, and is generally more wary around car dealers than most people are around rattlesnakes - that I could get my butt in a sling over this $8000 deal is a measure of how utterly impossible it is to "win" against dealerships. It was not even in the deal itself, but in the financing aftermath, in which they b*tch-slapped me around not to gain a single dollar or point, but simply because they could and felt like it. Rattlesnakes don't bite passersby because it's fun; they do it because it's in their nature. Dealers don't screw every person to walk onto their lot because they have to or "want" to - it's just their nature.

Did the incident sharply remind me of the nature of the system? You bet. Did it shape something that was shaped and set in concrete many years ago? Hardly.
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:38 PM
 
17,626 posts, read 12,211,350 times
Reputation: 12864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
We'd have to start a long ways back in the chain of events. Very short form, you getting a car for $1000 less than the next guy does not in any way mean you got a good deal.


RFC.

I've been writing about this topic (among many other related ones) for at least two decades and my "rules" have only gotten more stringent as time, research and experience drive them.

The incident was less than a year ago, and happened because I broke some of those rules; it was a close family member in a crisis and I trusted them a bit too much on the homework part. That someone who is an expert on these kind of consumer transactions and relationships, who has considerable financial and legal leverage on hand, and is generally more wary around car dealers than most people are around rattlesnakes - that I could get my butt in a sling over this $8000 deal is a measure of how utterly impossible it is to "win" against dealerships. It was not even in the deal itself, but in the financing aftermath, in which they b*tch-slapped me around not to gain a single dollar or point, but simply because they could and felt like it. Rattlesnakes don't bite passersby because it's fun; they do it because it's in their nature. Dealers don't screw every person to walk onto their lot because they have to or "want" to - it's just their nature.

Did the incident sharply remind me of the nature of the system? You bet. Did it shape something that was shaped and set in concrete many years ago? Hardly.

You arenít the person who gets to determine what a good deal is for other people. You seem to be more dramatic than an expert
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Old 09-30-2018, 12:55 PM
 
16,494 posts, read 17,525,712 times
Reputation: 23561
Quote:
Originally Posted by krug View Post
I'm in the market for a new F150, and the 0% financing for 72 months expires end of September. Do you think these rates will continue, or will these free money be a thing of the past.
I qualify for 0%. But truthfully you donít get all the rebates if you get 0%. Sometimes itís better to get the rebates and your own 1% loan.
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Old 09-30-2018, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,017 posts, read 1,023,325 times
Reputation: 3849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
I qualify for 0%. But truthfully you donít get all the rebates if you get 0%. Sometimes itís better to get the rebates and your own 1% loan.
The bottom line answer to the OP is no, don't rush to buy the truck this weekend. The net cost will be much the same in October and beyond, just with different terms.

And something that's been raised about zero-percent financing and its kith... look closely at the penalties for missing a payment, etc. They are often draconian, and can jump to much higher rates for a single late payment. Paying half a loan at 2-3X credit union rates will more than wipe out savings of that no-interest first half.
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