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Old 10-15-2018, 05:13 AM
Status: "Cold rain...wtf??" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: 11235
1,441 posts, read 464,730 times
Reputation: 2772

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
Many things today are not comparable nor is life for that matter today. The quality of life today is far far better. Heck we didn’t have air conditioning growing up .We had a tv that broke and tv’s were so expensive we did not buy another one for almost a year.

Homes are much bigger today . We used to pay so much for long distance calls I spoke to family every few months.

So money buys different things today.

One interesting thing is the average woman today weighs as much as the average man did in 1960
Are we to glean from that last sentence that the average man weighs the same as he did in 1960?

One thing that has always been noted about living at the poverty level in America is the ability to be morbidly obese and suffer from all that that brings - diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. High fructose corn syrup is cheap. Lard is cheap. The dollar menu's are cheap. All are loaded with meaningless calories. There is hardly any nutritional value at all.

It has always been interesting to me that organic food, which requires no one to manufacture chemicals or genetically engineer anything, always costs more than their unhealthy counterparts.

Yes, your iPhone keeps you plugged into family. You can face time and don't even have to exert the energy to go visit with them anymore. You can have an entire social life for free sitting in a chair with your iPhone. You aren't exerting any energy to burn calories that way either.

Homes are bigger depends on the value of the real estate. In NYC, people are paying a TON more for much less space than they had in 1960.

To say the quality of life is far far better is really subjective. For the bulk of our society - the truly average person - the quality of life is far far worse. Even the quality of the products they used to get at the fast food joints is far far worse.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:29 AM
 
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we recently got back from a trip to cuba . those on low incomes here don't live poor in comparison at all.the quality of life here is comparative very good
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,680 posts, read 2,299,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
there will always be those who are not going to get ahead ever , in any job climate. they lack skills , they may be unemployable for anything better or they just plain have no drive or motivation or work in their area regardless of the economy . .

many will be poor in any job market so this had nothing to do with the job market . these are individual issues.

no one sees themselves as unemployable , skill-less or are just undesirable as an employee but that is just what many minimum wage workers who are in that slot forever may be .

i am retired now but the company i worked for has grown to over a 100 million dollar company from 8 million when i started . they are always hiring in every slot .

the labor pool left sucks! . most of those jobs go unfilled unless head hunters steal a competitors best of breed . if people in these parts are unemployed or buried in a low end job ,there is usually a reason .
Agreed that not everyone will get ahead. But also, not everyone wants to work 80 hours a week and bring the job home all the time. Those people are going to make less money. But that still doesn't mean they have to decide on whether to pay the rent or buy food. They should be able to do both. I'm not talking about people living in mansions here. I'm talking about people who shouldn't have to move out in their campers or in a tent because minimum wage won't cover a month's rent. And I don't think these people deserve poverty, for any reason. No one does. Although it seems that many here on CD think they do.

I get the feeling you guys think everything is fine. Well, it's not and things are getting worse. More and more people are facing a money shortage. In another country we'd call it a food shortage, or a housing crisis or a health problem. Here in the US we call it a money shortage because money is what buys those things.

Don't try to push it off by bringing in Cuba. We don't live in Cuba. We live here, in the US, in what is supposed to be the best country in the world. We have people who live on the streets, we have people who live in campers, we have people who live in tents with no plumbing and no electricity and no health care. We're not just talking about the ones who have mental problems or are addicts or alcoholics. These are people who have worked all their lives but who have retired, are disabled, have lost their pensions, have lost their jobs and/or have lost everything they own in a natural disaster.

You think none of this can touch you because you're insulated by the good life. You think riots and revolutions only happened in old times. Let me tell you, people will only be pushed so far. If things don't change, they'll continue on and get worse. And at what point are you going to understand that? We already have health problems in LA like hepatitis and typhus. What happens when TB turns into an epidemic? Disease doesn't respect either money or borders.

By the way, Cuba also has free health care. Just sayin'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv95 View Post
People who need to work minimum wage jobs either live in an area where it's 90% of the amount and they have no means to get away from the area, or are not trying hard enough. The latter has nothing to do with the economy, and as for the former, unless you are forced to stay in those certain areas you're not forced to settle for minimum wage.
Spoken by someone else who apparently has money to move, money to go to college and get more skills, and money to fall back on in bad times. How is your credit score? Great? Because if it's not, it's going to be difficult to find a well paying job and next to impossible to find a decent place to live should you ever need to do either.

Minimum wage jobs aren't just in poor areas. They're all through cities and rural areas alike, rich and poor. I worked a $5.50 an hour job in one of the richest cities in California and if you think there aren't minimum wage jobs all through the Bay Area and Silicon Valley, you must be delusional. Even if people there get paid $15 an hour, they still can't afford to live there.

Maybe it's time to see exactly what areas in the US are really having a crisis when it comes to businesses finding people to work for them. Is it possible that those places are right where housing is highest and service workers can't find a place to live on the wages these employers are paying, so that there aren't any people left to take those service jobs?
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:09 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,060 posts, read 671,463 times
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It was completely unnecessary and foolish to add fiscal stimulus at a time of low unemployment. This was the result of the tax cuts. Great it boosted some jobs but it also boosted interest rates which could show up in 2019 to do some real damage to the economy.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:19 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,841 posts, read 57,851,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Minimum wage jobs aren't just in poor areas. They're all through cities and rural areas alike, rich and poor.

Maybe it's time to see exactly what areas in the US are really having a crisis
when it comes to businesses finding people to work for them.

Is it possible that those places are right where housing is highest
and service workers can't find a place to live on the wages these employers are paying,
so that there aren't any people left to take those service jobs?
The solution will be (is) to to eliminate all those low end jobs that pay so poorly.
The people will brew their own coffee and make their own sandwiches and trim their own hedges
and swab out their own toilets. They'll have to.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:24 PM
 
64,545 posts, read 66,100,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Agreed that not everyone will get ahead. But also, not everyone wants to work 80 hours a week and bring the job home all the time. Those people are going to make less money. But that still doesn't mean they have to decide on whether to pay the rent or buy food. They should be able to do both. I'm not talking about people living in mansions here. I'm talking about people who shouldn't have to move out in their campers or in a tent because minimum wage won't cover a month's rent. And I don't think these people deserve poverty, for any reason. No one does. Although it seems that many here on CD think they do.

I get the feeling you guys think everything is fine. Well, it's not and things are getting worse. More and more people are facing a money shortage. In another country we'd call it a food shortage, or a housing crisis or a health problem. Here in the US we call it a money shortage because money is what buys those things.

Don't try to push it off by bringing in Cuba. We don't live in Cuba. We live here, in the US, in what is supposed to be the best country in the world. We have people who live on the streets, we have people who live in campers, we have people who live in tents with no plumbing and no electricity and no health care. We're not just talking about the ones who have mental problems or are addicts or alcoholics. These are people who have worked all their lives but who have retired, are disabled, have lost their pensions, have lost their jobs and/or have lost everything they own in a natural disaster.

You think none of this can touch you because you're insulated by the good life. You think riots and revolutions only happened in old times. Let me tell you, people will only be pushed so far. If things don't change, they'll continue on and get worse. And at what point are you going to understand that? We already have health problems in LA like hepatitis and typhus. What happens when TB turns into an epidemic? Disease doesn't respect either money or borders.

By the way, Cuba also has free health care. Just sayin'.



Spoken by someone else who apparently has money to move, money to go to college and get more skills, and money to fall back on in bad times. How is your credit score? Great? Because if it's not, it's going to be difficult to find a well paying job and next to impossible to find a decent place to live should you ever need to do either.

Minimum wage jobs aren't just in poor areas. They're all through cities and rural areas alike, rich and poor. I worked a $5.50 an hour job in one of the richest cities in California and if you think there aren't minimum wage jobs all through the Bay Area and Silicon Valley, you must be delusional. Even if people there get paid $15 an hour, they still can't afford to live there.

Maybe it's time to see exactly what areas in the US are really having a crisis when it comes to businesses finding people to work for them. Is it possible that those places are right where housing is highest and service workers can't find a place to live on the wages these employers are paying, so that there aren't any people left to take those service jobs?

all i can say is i grew up in a nyc housing project . i spent my life making sure i never raised my own family there . there was no option . it was not going to happen .. i did whatever it took and i made sure i gained skills that could help me and take me where i needed to go
i did what i had to do to never go back and to improve my life . .. mission accomplished . . i can't speak for others .
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Washington state
4,680 posts, read 2,299,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
all i can say is i grew up in a nyc housing project . i spent my life making sure i never raised my own family there . there was no option . it was not going to happen .. i did whatever it took and i made sure i gained skills that could help me and take me where i needed to go
i did what i had to do to never go back and to improve my life . .. mission accomplished . . i can't speak for others .
I applaud you. I wish I could have done the same. My mission was to get out of an abusive house and skills didn't come into that reckoning. I couldn't stay there long enough to get skills and when I did get out of there, I was working full time and going back to high school full time so I could graduate with no time in between to think of the future.

I'd be interested to know if you had a mentor or anyone to turn to while you were growing up. I was young, dumb, and naive and knew absolutely nothing about finances, savings, retirement, anything. I opened my first checking account at 18 and the tellers had to explain to me how to write a check and fill out a deposit slip. The power company had to show me how to pay the bill. I didn't even know retirement existed. It never even occurred to me that I could ever earn more money. I was brought up thinking that if you just work at a job long enough, you'd move up in life. Skills weren't needed because the jobs I hired on at actually trained me. I thought it was like that at all jobs. How dumb can a person get?
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Old 10-17-2018, 02:23 PM
 
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i had no mentor growing up . but i did have experiences . i learned early on that money buys choices in life and i wanted as many choices in life at my skills and time allowed .

my best friend growing up in the projects was arrested for a crime he did not do .

his family was just over the limit for legal aid and they could not afford a lawyer .

my friend was going to plead guilty to something he did not do because he had no choice . it was either plead guilty to a lower charge or risk a jury .

i knew he did not do it because him and i did not join the other guys that night and broke off from the group .

that had such a profound effect on me over the rest of my life . i never wanted to be in the position of having to do something because there just was no choice.


i was a pro drummer back in the 1970's. d-jays were coming on the scene and i saw the hand writing on the wall . i would eventually be obsoleted so i had to find another career .

i ran through every thing i thought i might do that stood a chance of not being obsoleted . i came up with nothing .

then one day i see a commercial for a new school . apex technical school and they did hvac .

i said to myself , self i says , i don't know a thing about this stuff but i know people will rebuild car engines or build their own homes but i don't know anyone who would go in to a sealed system of an ac unit .

so i borrowed more money than i ever thought i would owe and gave it a shot .

well i lied about experience to get my first job as no one wanted you out of school . hated the business as you were either on a hot roof or in a machine room somewhere dying from the heat . everything was dirty and heavy .

so eventually i learned the control end and learned to troubleshoot the complex mall climate control systems .

eventually i decided to sell commercial ac systems and ended up working for a company who sold ac and refrigeration gear but was also an allen bradley motor control distributor .

i learned the allen bradley end and slid over to factory automation equipment and designing control panels and became a motor control specialists .

40 years later i retired from a pretty good career . today i work one day a week in retirement teaching motor controls and variable frequency drives at a distributor .

havac provided the basis to go off in so many lucrative directions because the public stays away .

making money is all about doing the things others can't or won't do for themselves.

you need to be creative , motivated and want to be successful like a pit bull latching on to something .

not everyone can do this .
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:40 AM
 
3,459 posts, read 1,980,913 times
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Rodentraiser makes some valid points, its just there are two types here on CD. Thems what haves, and thems whats struggles to live.

Never the twain shall meet.

No one has mentioned, among these things, regardless what side you are on.

And that is WAGE REGRESSION. what do i mean?

Well my state, for the bulk of the state, minimum wage is $10.40. Dec. 31 it goes to $11.10.
A person making $11 now, is almost a dollar over minimum. But chances are they will only go to $11.50 if they are lucky, or just $0.40 over minimum instead. Their wages regressed.

Also, for those currently making $15, are almost $5 over minimum, but they might not get an automatic raise to coincide with the minimum increase, so their wages regressed to just $4 over minimum.

Lets not get into inflation either. That takes a bigger bite out of their income due to the rise in minimum wage.

Also many, like mathjak ( thanks btw for explaining your work history) lived and worked in different times. Id Like to see how it would be for him to now take on the comparatively high debt to get that hvac basic education now and see just what little that job might comparatively pay today. Hes retired, and yeah has skills to work only 1 day a week, but if he was back in the trenches trying to earn a living and pay off that debt, he might be singing a different tune.

What do i mean? It cost one of my best friends about $30k to get his juris doctorate (lawyer). Between working as a proctor, a student teacher position and a few other then-lucrative jobs, not to mention cheaper college in the early 70s. he came out of law school debt free. He now makes $6k a week as an experienced attorney. And now to finish law school, it takes about $300k, and you cannot work that off going through school like he did. He himself has said there is no way he could come out of law school debt free nowadays.

Another example: in 1981, i took a job as third shift cashier in a restaurant attached to a travel plaza. I was paid minimum PLUS a $0.25 shift differential, something that has disappeared anong lower paying jobs. Second shift got a $0.10 differential. When i got hired over in the store section for day shift, i not only got a raise, but got to keep the differential as well. By 1989 i was in retail still, making MORE THAN 3 times above minimum wage. Then 1990 came. The economy tanked. I had to leave the state i had moved to to move "back home" to only find minimum wage jobs.
Now minimum wage service jobs are the basis for the local economy here.

I do draw SSDI now, and while i can work part time, im making less than i was in 1989. I DO keep low as just like with regular SS ( until or unless certain conditions are met), one is only allowed to make so much before one gets dinged.

It isn't easy to compare todays living to the 70s, 60s, or even the 50s. No matter what charts, graphs, or "comparisons " are used.
Things were different. My OH, for example, punched a time clock, got schedule off a posted paper one until recently, for example. Now my OH is FORCED into having and maintaining a smart phone for punching in and out, and to get schedules. Cant compare the apples to apples like that! ( and people wonder why low income people just have to have a smart phone)

College required cheap tablets, pens and pencils and some books, nowadays its computer systems required abd expensive program purchase. No book, except maybe ( and its a stretch) a complete set of law books or a set of medical books will ever match the cost the $2500 of a required computer systems and a few programs cost now. No cheapy chrome book laptop will do now. When i did go to college in 1981 $100 for a book was so expensive!!!

Then There are also the people featured on 60 minutes or another news program not so long ago who had their handy dandy expensive college degree with "skills" who worked for Google, but who lived in their cars IN Google 's parking lot because THEY COULD NOT afford a place to live!
Id love to see what mathjak would say if he was in THAT situation. Ill bet in the 70s he didnt have such problems,
cause living wages were easy to come by . Even i had that in the 80s, and i didnt finish college!
( btw mathjak, you want to come replace my furnace with a new one with central air????)

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Old 10-18-2018, 02:53 AM
 
3,459 posts, read 1,980,913 times
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Last edited by galaxyhi; 10-18-2018 at 04:11 AM..
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