Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Isn't pay at all time lows, too? And aren't the vast majority of new jobs in the service and minimum wage sector?
For most Americans, real wages have barely budged for decades | Pew Research Center
"On the face of it, these should be heady times for American workers. U.S. unemployment is as low as it’s been in nearly two decades (3.9% as of July) and the nation’s private-sector employers have been adding jobs for 101 straight months – 19.5 million since the Great Recession-related cuts finally abated in early 2010, and 1.5 million just since the beginning of the year.
But despite the strong labor market, wage growth has lagged economists' expectations. In fact, despite some ups and downs over the past several decades, today’s real average wage (that is, the wage after accounting for inflation) has about the same purchasing power it did 40 years ago. And what wage gains there have been have mostly flowed to the highest-paid tier of workers."
"In fact, in real terms average hourly earnings peaked more than 45 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 had the same purchasing power that $23.68 would today."
"Yes, had the US income distribution and US standards of decency remained exactly what it was in 1968, the minimum wage would now be $21.16 per hour.
I grew up on the idea that America stood for progress, continual progress toward a better society. Even a $21.16 minimum wage wouldn’t represent progress. It would mean socially standing still, just with better technology and higher productivity levels. Progress would mean a minimum wage in excess of $21.16 per hour."
1. No. Pay is not at all time lows or even close.
2. Point to point time horizon wage analysis that does not account for the massive increases in non-wage compensation and huge increases in direct and in-kind gov't. benefits that many workers receive is incomplete at best, dishonest at worst.
3. A broadly applied $21.16 hr. minimum wage is unthinkable.
4. We've known for decades - heck I remember my 3rd grade teacher Mrs. Hines talking about this in 1972 - that the era of low skilled workers doing well was coming to an end........it's the fault of individuals if they did nothing to prepare.
5. Real progress would be more kids trying in school and more people understanding that a successful life is up to them not the .gov.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,563 posts, read 81,147,605 times
Reputation: 57767
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_
1. No. Pay is not at all time lows or even close.
2. Point to point time horizon wage analysis that does not account for the massive increases in non-wage compensation and huge increases in direct and in-kind gov't. benefits that many workers receive is incomplete at best, dishonest at worst.
3. A broadly applied $21.16 hr. minimum wage is unthinkable.
4. We've known for decades - heck I remember my 3rd grade teacher Mrs. Hines talking about this in 1972 - that the era of low skilled workers doing well was coming to an end........it's the fault of individuals if they did nothing to prepare.
5. Real progress would be more kids trying in school and more people understanding that a successful life is up to them not the .gov.
My wife works at a school and didn't get a raise for several years during and after the recession, but did after that, and just recently got a nice one. I have gotten a raise every year since starting here in 2009. I can say the same for everyone I know, friends and relatives that have mentioned it. Despite the low jobless rate some are still not working, or are underemployed, or complaining of no raises. No matter how well the economy is going, there will always be those without the skills for a family wage job, some of those will refuse to accept minimum wage job, others may not even get those due to problems competing with others for them. So the bottom line is that a certain number of people will always struggle to keep up with the cost of living.
This jobless rate is nonsense. If it was so difficult to get employees because the labor pool of talent is so small, then wages would be going up dramatically and they are not. Is anyone being offered a 20% increase to leave their current job to move to another company? Not with any sort of frequency. This white house administration is playing games with the numbers, and actual experience of job seekers doesn't mesh with these numbers.
This white house administration is playing games with the numbers
Love it. That makes at how many administrations in a row where posters in here are sayings BLS statisticians who have worked through several administrations are playing games with the numbers.
Basically every POTUS somehow communicates a directive to the thousands of employees at huge government agencies BLS, Census, etc. to fudge the numbers and lie for them. Yet somehow all these thousands of folks in a government that has trouble keeping any secret keep it all secret. Even though so many are now retired it's still a secret. This happens for decade after decade. None of these thousands of employees has any political leanings, they just say "ok" and commit fraud even if it goes counter to their own political leanings. None of the many communications needed to convince everyone to lie for whatever president can be found in an email system, it's just word of mouth all hush hush.
1. No. Pay is not at all time lows or even close.
2. Point to point time horizon wage analysis that does not account for the massive increases in non-wage compensation and huge increases in direct and in-kind gov't. benefits that many workers receive is incomplete at best, dishonest at worst.
3. A broadly applied $21.16 hr. minimum wage is unthinkable.
4. We've known for decades - heck I remember my 3rd grade teacher Mrs. Hines talking about this in 1972 - that the era of low skilled workers doing well was coming to an end........it's the fault of individuals if they did nothing to prepare.
5. Real progress would be more kids trying in school and more people understanding that a successful life is up to them not the .gov.
When every expert and economist is telling you that real wages are flat, have been flat for decades, why are you still insisting that that should be the norm?
Why is a minimum wage at $21.16 an hour so unthinkable? That minimum wage, in 1968 dollars, was doable back in the 60s and we didn't have the poverty rate or the number of homeless that we do now. More people were able to go to college (which cost much less then) and more people owned homes then. Those are the things that happen when people earn real wages when compared to the economy.
What you are forgetting is that there are not enough high wage jobs out there for everyone, no matter what your 3rd grade teacher told you. If everyone were to go to college and get a degree for a high wage job, half of them would still be unemployed. At that point, you wouldn't have any high wage jobs anymore because the glut of employees would drive down the wages. How would you like to work as an engineer for $15,000 a year, provided that you got the job after spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a college degree for it?
In addition, we still need the people to do the lower wage jobs that have always been necessary in a society. Basically, what you're saying is that you'd prefer people to either get credentials to do high wage work and drive wages down for everyone or you'd rather keep low wage workers in low wage jobs and you don't care if they can't make a decent living, which means you don't think those people are worth jack.
All I can say is if this is your attitude, then you and others like you better get used to paying more taxes for government social services and to seeing many more homeless people around you.
I wasn't homeless in 1975 because I could afford to rent a one-bedroom apartment on the minimum wage job of $2 an hour. In California. Today I couldn't find a one-bedroom apartment in an area of 12 states that I could rent while being paid $7.25 an hour.
Here is the BLS labor participation rate trend. We peaked in the mid-late 90's at 67.5% and have regressed since. Since 2010 we have fallen 2.5%. So any un-employment rate movement must be viewed in conjunction with employment/participation data as well.
Yes, I definitely agree with that. But we do have an aging population; so a significant part of the drop in the employment rate is related to the Boomers retiring. That said, I do think unemployment is worse than the official rate would indicate.
My wife works at a school and didn't get a raise for several years during and after the recession, but did after that, and just recently got a nice one. I have gotten a raise every year since starting here in 2009. I can say the same for everyone I know, friends and relatives that have mentioned it. Despite the low jobless rate some are still not working, or are underemployed, or complaining of no raises. No matter how well the economy is going, there will always be those without the skills for a family wage job, some of those will refuse to accept minimum wage job, others may not even get those due to problems competing with others for them. So the bottom line is that a certain number of people will always struggle to keep up with the cost of living.
Agreed good post.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
