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Old 10-12-2018, 06:56 PM
 
3,456 posts, read 1,978,113 times
Reputation: 7833

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
If we got rid of the "dumb" people the smart people would not want the jobs. Who here wants a job cleaning lavatories?

And also, I've seen some lower class people make lots of money. It doesn't take brains to make money, it takes ambition.

>snip<
)
First, thank you for your apology.

Next along with what i said earlier, ive been asking anyone who is against the lower wage classes: " who will clean the wealthy's toilets? Cause they sure won't ".
So, id say we agree on that point.

I should also say i havent finished my college education, i went pay as you go in two different degree curricula. Then one semester at jr college, i took loans as i simply could not afford it at the time, and ended up with $12k loans. I realized id he deep in debt doing that for a two year degree, and also due to severe health issues, Dropped out again. ( ended up with two major surgeries).

But: i have worked hard for what I've got. We own a house, two paid for cars, have money in the bank and retirement. I also draw SSDI due to my many health issues that are chronic, get around with a cane, and yet until last month was working part time ( allowed). My spouse works two jobs, also.

So i have a partial education and have been thinking of finishing. Dont know at 55 what it will get me.

Being that I have worked "nothing " jobs, i still have a sympathy for those who DON'T sit on their a$$e$ collecting welfare while pumping out a kid every 5 years or so just to do so. Single or married or a parent, They DO deserve a livable wage if they are -key words- willing to work for it!

No, it doesnt have to be $25/,hr, but i think $15/hr should be a fair and livable wage. Some areas maybe even higher. How does it really matter to the person making $50 or $75/,hr if they get $15 for doing a job the $50-75/hr DOESN'T want to do?

If everyone was a doctor or lawyer or architect. Who, yeah as you said and i say, who is going to clean the toilets? Because they surely won't want to!!!

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Old 10-12-2018, 07:11 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,545 posts, read 14,037,847 times
Reputation: 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
No, it doesnt have to be $25/,hr, but i think $15/hr should be a fair and livable wage. Some areas maybe even higher. How does it really matter to the person making $50 or $75/,hr if they get $15 for doing a job the $50-75/hr DOESN'T want to do?
The liberals seem to want to have a national $15/hour minimum wage.

I don't believe that will help things but I'm willing to hand them enough rope to hang themselves.

All I can say is don't blame me when a Big Mac costs $10,

Don't blame me when all hamburger flippers are rendered unemployed when the capital cost of robo-flippers provides a TCO of $8/hour.

Maybe the unemployed hamburger flippers can become stock traders...
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:28 PM
 
18,236 posts, read 11,645,412 times
Reputation: 11847
Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
First, thank you for your apology.

Next along with what i said earlier, ive been asking anyone who is against the lower wage classes: " who will clean the wealthy's toilets? Cause they sure won't ".
So, id say we agree on that point.

I should also say i havent finished my college education, i went pay as you go in two different degree curricula. Then one semester at jr college, i took loans as i simply could not afford it at the time, and ended up with $12k loans. I realized id he deep in debt doing that for a two year degree, and also due to severe health issues, Dropped out again. ( ended up with two major surgeries).

But: i have worked hard for what I've got. We own a house, two paid for cars, have money in the bank and retirement. I also draw SSDI due to my many health issues that are chronic, get around with a cane, and yet until last month was working part time ( allowed). My spouse works two jobs, also.

So i have a partial education and have been thinking of finishing. Dont know at 55 what it will get me.

Being that I have worked "nothing " jobs, i still have a sympathy for those who DON'T sit on their a$$e$ collecting welfare while pumping out a kid every 5 years or so just to do so. Single or married or a parent, They DO deserve a livable wage if they are -key words- willing to work for it!

No, it doesnt have to be $25/,hr, but i think $15/hr should be a fair and livable wage. Some areas maybe even higher. How does it really matter to the person making $50 or $75/,hr if they get $15 for doing a job the $50-75/hr DOESN'T want to do?

If everyone was a doctor or lawyer or architect. Who, yeah as you said and i say, who is going to clean the toilets? Because they surely won't want to!!!



United States employment market has a problem. OTOH for those with a college and or graduate degree, and or have high demand skills wages are good to excellent. Then you have the vast numbers of "unskilled", low skilled, and or those who lack higher education. For them increasingly there is nothing left but minimum wage employment.


In the 1940's through 1970's the rise and strength of unions saw to it that even "unskilled" labor had a fairly decent standard of living. Between death of unions and manufacturing in this country those who are or cannot plug into the new economy are being left behind.


Other side of this sorry and sad tale is both GOP and DNC have for years demonized tech/vocational education. Pushing all and sundry high school students into "college prep" tracks and then onto college. This even when it is clear then and now not all young people can handle.


You look at Germany which despite forces unleashed by global trade and in particular rise of Asia still maintains a strong manufacturing base. Why is that? Because German government supports their manufacturing base in many ways including vocational/tech training for high school students.


Contrary to popular mantra manufacturing isn't totally dead in the USA. Such employers are begging to find workers with proper skills. Many are even offering to set up or have established training/apprentice programs similar to the German model. Still they have far too few takers.


Why? Because manufacturing in 2018 isn't same as 1958. A good CAD drafter makes good money, far more than flipping burghers or working at an Amazon warehouse, but you have to have the skills which aren't the same as your grandfather's day.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:16 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,545 posts, read 14,037,847 times
Reputation: 9663
Anybody can flip burgers. It takes ambition to pay money to learn a vocation before you get paid back in higher wages.

One very hot vocational job is auto mechanic. You can make a very nice living if you are a gear head, but you need the cert.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:14 AM
 
24,692 posts, read 26,777,106 times
Reputation: 22704
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
Huh. I know a bunch of the guys that work in our warehouse where I work. Most of them have their side hustle. They aren't dumb.


We're a Fortune 500 company, with awesome benefits, and we're one of the top 100 companies people love to work at. Most of us know we landed at a great place.


You're talking about youth. Youth ANYWHERE want their cars, tatoos, don't have families so they don't care about cooking, etc.


(Psssst, your classism is showing.)
Maybe his classism was showing, but he kinda had a point. America is the land of horrible health habits and trashy behavior. I've been to poorer countries in Latin America where the people--including poor people--act in a more dignified way.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:17 AM
 
24,692 posts, read 26,777,106 times
Reputation: 22704
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
If you don't meet their work requirements you'll be let go at Amazon. That $15hr is nothing when they work you like a robot. Amazon makes workers compete with their robotic machines.
Agreed. I'm glad the media is finally shining a light on Amazon instead of always picking on WalMart (not that they're any great shakes, either).
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:31 AM
 
Location: USA
6,171 posts, read 4,948,777 times
Reputation: 10547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
Anybody can flip burgers. It takes ambition to pay money to learn a vocation before you get paid back in higher wages.

One very hot vocational job is auto mechanic. You can make a very nice living if you are a gear head, but you need the cert.
not enough trade jobs for all. Biggest type of jobs in the country are indeed low skilled service jobs. And we, the taxpayer subsidize the cost of them.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:17 PM
Status: "I can retire today...but I love my job so...." (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: USA
551 posts, read 196,003 times
Reputation: 1527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
The liberals seem to want to have a national $15/hour minimum wage.

I don't believe that will help things but I'm willing to hand them enough rope to hang themselves.

All I can say is don't blame me when a Big Mac costs $10,

Don't blame me when all hamburger flippers are rendered unemployed when the capital cost of robo-flippers provides a TCO of $8/hour.

Maybe the unemployed hamburger flippers can become stock traders...
Who do we blame with certain benefits are reduced or eliminated? See Amazon for the reference.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:24 PM
 
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles del Río Porciúncula
13,545 posts, read 14,037,847 times
Reputation: 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by k7baixo View Post
Who do we blame with certain benefits are reduced or eliminated? See Amazon for the reference.
I have no clue what you are referring to. AFAIK I can't see Amazon because they are in Seattle and I am not.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,744 posts, read 1,207,954 times
Reputation: 5039
Quote:
Originally Posted by k7baixo View Post
I’m sure I’ll catch grief for this but, at the end of the day, does it really make sense to give warehouse workers stock options?
It only makes sense to give stock options to people who you want to basically permanently hire and frankly, to those that fully understand what you're giving them...both the good and the bad.

Otherwise, for a large number of participants, having a profit sharing plan or a vesting 401k match would make more sense.
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