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Old 10-14-2018, 11:56 AM
 
5,192 posts, read 2,353,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
So let us know the name of this utopian company after you create it, and we will all go work there.

And in your business model, when the company gets sued, do all the workers in the company pay for the lawsuit?

I didn't think so.
Sure, they are called lay offs and if not, they would pass the cost to the consumer just like they do with an increase in taxes. There is no free lunch.

You never see the lawsuits come out of upper management pay.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:12 PM
 
5,238 posts, read 1,573,835 times
Reputation: 5036
This thread should be in POC because it has ZERO to do with economics.

The OP has posted similar nonsensical allegations in POC multiple times, btw. Always some variation on an anti-freedom, anti-capital screed.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:15 PM
 
5,192 posts, read 2,353,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
Taking ownership of businesses from shareholders and giving it to workers is redistribution of wealth. You can call it whatever you want but that’s what it is.
And purchasing politicians in order to create trade pacts with a communist country also redistributes the wealth to upper management and shareholders and depresses wages for Americans.

I suppose you would call the owners of a diamond mine using slave labor including kids and threatening them to keep up with work is a successful person?
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:23 PM
 
5,192 posts, read 2,353,402 times
Reputation: 1859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
It is just meant to devalue labor as to make no one want to do it. That is the same basis everyone on this thread makes for their arguments, work is not desired but required.

Conversely if private capitalist didn’t control or extremely limit all labor and make it so that work is not a choice, production would be based on worker benefit.

Instead all we have today is private capitalist making wealth for themselves and all the people on this thread defending them (because they need to believe the richest in this country are responsible for the creation of wealth, even if all evidence suggests otherwise).
Like the Communist Soviet Union, the majority of the very rich in this country are at that level because they have politicians on speed dial and donate heavily to their campaigns. .

There are around 20 banking lobbyists for every politician in Washington DC. They are not give politicians millions of dollars to be kind, they expect a lucrative return on their investment.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:28 PM
 
5,192 posts, read 2,353,402 times
Reputation: 1859
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
This thread should be in POC because it has ZERO to do with economics.

The OP has posted similar nonsensical allegations in POC multiple times, btw. Always some variation on an anti-freedom, anti-capital screed.
There is no freedom in our current system.
Did the moneychangers wanting a trade pact with Communist Chinese complain about the lack of freedoms for workers?

You only want freedom for you and if you can profit off of others with lesss or no freedoms, you are fine with it.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,397 posts, read 1,760,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
This thread should be in POC because it has ZERO to do with economics.

The OP has posted similar nonsensical allegations in POC multiple times, btw. Always some variation on an anti-freedom, anti-capital screed.
Nope. The lack of freedom in are system has everything to do with economics. Today economic power functions like political power which just keeps stifling free access to labor and mutual aid.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:03 PM
 
9,317 posts, read 7,324,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I don't, I think companies should be worker run democratically since they are the ones who keep the company operating, not the ones who manage the capital.
Workers are free to start a company and run it as a coop. If a company is set up as a corporation, LLC, etc, other rules and priorities apply. It's that simple.

Workers know the deal when they agree to sell their labor for wages.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:15 PM
 
5,238 posts, read 1,573,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Nope. The lack of freedom in are system has everything to do with economics. Today economic power functions like political power which just keeps stifling free access to labor and mutual aid.

"free access to labor" is a perfect example of the nonsensical stuff you have been posting.

Nobody is infringing on your right to sell your labor, (well, except minimum wage laws that dictate how much you can sell it for) but YOU wish to infringe on that right even further.

This thread is not an Economics topic. Its a political thread. I guess you weren't getting anyone to agree with you in POC and decided to see what you might accomplish here.
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,397 posts, read 1,760,233 times
Reputation: 2069
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Workers are free to start a company and run it as a coop. If a company is set up as a corporation, LLC, etc, other rules and priorities apply. It's that simple.

Workers know the deal when they agree to sell their labor for wages.
The mistake here is that a.) you believe capitalism is voluntary and b.) you believe private property is based on natural law.

The reality is that natural law is based on personal property. The operation of a good is the basis of ownership. If 10 workers operate in a factory, they own those means. Conversely the capitalist ‘owner’ having a piece of paper verified by the state doesn’t make it so. In fact, without state violence, these concentrations of wealth could not be maintained by a few individuals.

If someone wanted to pay those workers to do as he says, then fine. But the ownership of those means lay in the hands of those who operate it, and the second workers do not wish to follow his orders is the second that arrangement ends.

When capital is owned by one source, that naturally limits the right of workers to band together because the tools of production are controlled by one source with state protection.
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Old 10-14-2018, 02:11 PM
 
853 posts, read 364,843 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The mistake here is that a.) you believe capitalism is voluntary and b.) you believe private property is based on natural law.

The reality is that natural law is based on personal property. The operation of a good is the basis of ownership. If 10 workers operate in a factory, they own those means. Conversely the capitalist ‘owner’ having a piece of paper verified by the state doesn’t make it so. In fact, without state violence, these concentrations of wealth could not be maintained by a few individuals.

If someone wanted to pay those workers to do as he says, then fine. But the ownership of those means lay in the hands of those who operate it, and the second workers do not wish to follow his orders is the second that arrangement ends.

When capital is owned by one source, that naturally limits the right of workers to band together because the tools of production are controlled by one source with state protection.
so those 10 workers should just take home the widgets produced each day and when the factory owner has them arrested for theft, you can defend them in court with your natural law defense.

Sounds like a winner.

Amazing how utterly ridiculous your arguments are. Go heat up another hot pocket and attack that keyboard with a vengeance.
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