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Old 10-14-2018, 08:37 PM
 
8,111 posts, read 4,457,906 times
Reputation: 8744

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i use to think , that I was part of a company, that i should partake in the profits, That i should have free medical, free education, free retirement, make bogoogles of money with no trade, I was a liberal. and yes it would be nice, who doesnt like free stuff.

then I noticed the first three years of my company, the owner did not get a paycheck, that if the company wasnt successful, they would take his house and throw him and the kids on the street, you see he had all the risk, while i got a paycheck

then i realize i dont work for a company, I am not the company, Im just someone that agreed to work for a certain amount of money per hour, that all, I give them labor, they give me money. if the company folds, I still have my house.

so I am not the company, I just wear their uniform t shirts and do what I agree to get paid for.

but boss does tell up, the more money we make for him, the more money we take home, and that been true the last 33 years.
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:53 PM
 
9,284 posts, read 7,305,429 times
Reputation: 22786
FYI, people agreeing to sell their labor pre-dates the industrial era. During the agrarian era, there were farm hands and such.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,296 posts, read 1,747,973 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Dude, that's a bunch of delusional BS. Exploitation? Are you saying people don't have the free will to enter into agreements of their own choosing?

As to your last sentence, why can't labor be a commodity? What if I choose to sell my labor for wages? Who are YOU to take that choice away from me? Why can't production be for self profit? If you created an invention, don't you have the right to profit from your idea?
What I said and what I’ve said before is very clear, the means of production can’t be owned by someone who doesn’t operate it.

If a person wanted to pay workers to give him their production or tell them how to work, fine. But that agreement is reliant on the fact that the person paying for the work doesn’t not own the means of production. The agreement ends the second the worker wishes not to follow it anymore.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,296 posts, read 1,747,973 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
FYI, people agreeing to sell their labor pre-dates the industrial era. During the agrarian era, there were farm hands and such.
For land that was privately owned. If farmland could be operated on by space usage, not as many would feel the need to be controlled by someone else. Furthermore in the case of larger scale farming, the power structure would be horizontal among workers who agree to work together cooperatively rather than via a top down power structure.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,296 posts, read 1,747,973 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
i use to think , that I was part of a company, that i should partake in the profits, That i should have free medical, free education, free retirement, make bogoogles of money with no trade, I was a liberal. and yes it would be nice, who doesnt like free stuff.

then I noticed the first three years of my company, the owner did not get a paycheck, that if the company wasnt successful, they would take his house and throw him and the kids on the street, you see he had all the risk, while i got a paycheck

then i realize i dont work for a company, I am not the company, Im just someone that agreed to work for a certain amount of money per hour, that all, I give them labor, they give me money. if the company folds, I still have my house.

so I am not the company, I just wear their uniform t shirts and do what I agree to get paid for.

but boss does tell up, the more money we make for him, the more money we take home, and that been true the last 33 years.
For profit companies have to exploit labor to maximize production and lower costs, that is why the for profit motive is so broken, it does allow production for the benefit of the workers.

And the private welfare benefits you are talking have nothing to do with worker management and personal ownership.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:30 PM
 
9,322 posts, read 11,159,538 times
Reputation: 12507
There are plenty of "board of directors" that own very little stock. There are CEO's of companies that own NO stock. So at that point your whole thread just derailed.

I know of an outgoing CEO that sells every share of stock he is awarded. 5000 shares today is 5000 shares sold tomorrow! Cashes out everything. He is simply collecting paychecks like the employee he is.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:36 PM
 
9,322 posts, read 11,159,538 times
Reputation: 12507
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
i use to think , that I was part of a company, that i should partake in the profits, That i should have free medical, free education, free retirement, make bogoogles of money with no trade, I was a liberal. and yes it would be nice, who doesnt like free stuff.

then I noticed the first three years of my company, the owner did not get a paycheck, that if the company wasnt successful, they would take his house and throw him and the kids on the street, you see he had all the risk, while i got a paycheck

then i realize i dont work for a company, I am not the company, Im just someone that agreed to work for a certain amount of money per hour, that all, I give them labor, they give me money. if the company folds, I still have my house.

so I am not the company, I just wear their uniform t shirts and do what I agree to get paid for.

but boss does tell up, the more money we make for him, the more money we take home, and that been true the last 33 years.
Some people see the big picture (like you) and some folks dont (the OP).

I know a guy that owns a small business (9-10 employees). They used small pickups for the business (everyone drove one). Ford stopped making the Ranger a few years back and it was a nice truck for their needs. Owner realized that they were going out of production so he bought 9 brand new Rangers. I think it cost him about 170K, he paid it all upfront, no payments. So that year he got zero income from the business (he spent it all on the trucks). The employees all got brand new trucks and 24 paychecks. So in that case they did pretty good that year (score 9 for the employees), the owner got nothing (score 0 for him).

They are still driving those 5 year old trucks and they are BEAT to death. Shocked how poorly they cared for them. If I was driving a brand new truck everyday, it was mine (nobody else drove it) I would have tried to keep it as nice as possible!
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,296 posts, read 1,747,973 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
There are plenty of "board of directors" that own very little stock. There are CEO's of companies that own NO stock. So at that point your whole thread just derailed.

I know of an outgoing CEO that sells every share of stock he is awarded. 5000 shares today is 5000 shares sold tomorrow! Cashes out everything. He is simply collecting paychecks like the employee he is.
It doesn't make a difference. Shareholders have no right to own a company that is operated by separate workers (as they are the owners) while the mangers have no right to control labor without worker say.

The two groups intersect quite a bit, but again, it doesn't matter.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,296 posts, read 1,747,973 times
Reputation: 2057
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Some people see the big picture (like you) and some folks dont (the OP).

I know a guy that owns a small business (9-10 employees). They used small pickups for the business (everyone drove one). Ford stopped making the Ranger a few years back and it was a nice truck for their needs. Owner realized that they were going out of production so he bought 9 brand new Rangers. I think it cost him about 170K, he paid it all upfront, no payments. So that year he got zero income from the business (he spent it all on the trucks). The employees all got brand new trucks and 24 paychecks. So in that case they did pretty good that year (score 9 for the employees), the owner got nothing (score 0 for him).

They are still driving those 5 year old trucks and they are BEAT to death. Shocked how poorly they cared for them. If I was driving a brand new truck everyday, it was mine (nobody else drove it) I would have tried to keep it as nice as possible!
Again if you read my posts you'd know none of this has anything to do with what I'm talking about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
For profit companies have to exploit labor to maximize production and lower costs, that is why the for profit motive is so broken, it does allow production for the benefit of the workers.

And the private welfare benefits you are talking have nothing to do with worker management and personal ownership.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:52 PM
 
384 posts, read 269,477 times
Reputation: 1356
Guys, don't get baited into this nonsense. OP is a troll that keeps doubling down on his foolishness to keep you engaged in his little game. People that have real solutions to problems don't post 15+ pages of tired BS on an internet forum. OP is either some loser getting a Soros paycheck to sidetrack people from issues that matter, or he's a loser that's broke and lazy, dreaming of a system that will let him continue to be a parasite. Either way, not worth getting into it with him.
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