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Old 10-15-2018, 01:20 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 330,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
There is no stupider proposal that sounds like a good idea than a flat income tax. It would lop the taxes of the top 5% by an immense amount, to start with.
I think that's what they want to happen. And no AMT.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
2,980 posts, read 1,012,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
I think that's what they want to happen. And no AMT.
But the proponents (always billionaires, for some odd reason) package it as making it so simple and fair for the middle class... few of whose net tax burden would drop, and some who would see an effective rise.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:23 PM
 
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I love reading tax threads on citydata.

It must be how NFL coaches feel when their drunken fans yell at them about what they should have done in their game plan.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:24 PM
 
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How about who doesn't pay income tax, but should. It's not the 1% who have all their interest, dividends, capital gains and wages all subject to reporting.

Nonfiling and underpayment of reported taxes account for just over 15 percent of the gross tax gap (figure 1); underreporting on timely filed tax returns makes up the bulk of it; $387 billion or 85 percent of the gross tax gap.
Underreporting on individual income tax returns alone (including self-employment tax) was $329 billion (figure 2); about 85 percent of the underreporting tax gap in 2008-10. Almost 60 percent of the underreported individual tax is owed on business and self-employment income, which the IRS has no easy way to verify independently. About 11 percent of the underreporting gap is attributable to corporate income tax, and only 0.3 percent to the estate tax.

Individual taxpayers fail to report about 63 percent of income from sources for which there is no information reporting, such as sole proprietorships. In contrast, only 7 percent of income from easily verified sources—interest, dividends, and pensions—goes unreported. When income is subject to both information returns and tax withholding, as is the case with wages, only about 1 percent goes unreported.

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...k/what-tax-gap
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:40 PM
 
259 posts, read 199,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
There is no stupider proposal that sounds like a good idea than a flat income tax. It would lop the taxes of the top 5% by an immense amount, to start with.
Could it work in conjunction with no tax up to a livable amount? Could it work with basic income included?

A huge collection at the top in individuals is far less useful than in corporations. There shouldn't be a different investment tax. All income to an individual should be treated the same if they are cashing out an investment or earning it.

Other than the estate tax, once wealth accumulates at the top, there is no way to extract it except the estate tax which is gamed on top of that.

There are certainly no easy solutions that would make everyone happy. Then there are the % of people that want to or through no fault of their own not be able to contribute anything. What do we do with them as to not become toxic to society?

I certainly don't know the answer, and doubt their is a clear answer. Has the complexity in our system the best we can do? Can it changed and salvaged? Or is something completely different required to reflect societies ongoing changes tied to technological advancement. That may be what we need, but unless something revolutionary happens, I don't see the current condition and functionality of our government taking the steps necessary regardless if they Republican or Democrat.
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Old 10-15-2018, 01:58 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 330,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
But the proponents (always billionaires, for some odd reason) package it as making it so simple and fair for the middle class... few of whose net tax burden would drop, and some who would see an effective rise.
Yep. The billionaires could shed all the expensive CPAs and tax attorneys under a flat tax if there were no deductions allowed.

The key word for regular payroll employees is effective tax, you're right. Without credits and the current programs, they'd be paying more. Way more. No more annual pilgrimage to Disney World.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:16 PM
 
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ever notice anytime someone has to take a hit on something proposed it never starts at the level they are at . it always bypasses them but hurts someone else more.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:23 PM
 
11,304 posts, read 5,834,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Joe Q. Rockefeller makes $1M, mostly in investments, pays 29% and has to live on $700k.
Joe Q. Middleclass makes $60k, mostly in salary, pays about 21% and has to live on $47k.
Joe Q. Underclass makes $20k, mostly at minimum wage, pays 0% and has to live on $20k.

'Nuf sed.

Huh? Joe Q. Middleclass doesn't have have a 21% effective tax rate. Make Joe Q. Middleclass married with $60K household income is paying $3,939 in Federal income taxes and another $4,590 in payroll taxes. $8,529 pulled out in Federal, FICA, and Medicare. He's living on $51.5K. Compared to anywhere else in the first world, that's an extremely low effective tax rate. 14.22%.


The people who really get slaughtered are the self-employed making low 6 figures. 15.3% in self employment tax layered on top of Federal. If you're filing single making $130K, you have mostly 22% and 24% bracket income. In states with high state income taxes, you can easily be paying 40% of your gross as taxes.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:31 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 330,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The people who really get slaughtered are the self-employed making low 6 figures. 15.3% in self employment tax layered on top of Federal. If you're filing single making $130K, you have mostly 22% and 24% bracket income. In states with high state income taxes, you can easily be paying 40% of your gross as taxes.
Which explains the high per-hour rates of contracted professionals. They're losing much of that to taxes and providing their own benefits, unsubsidized.
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Old 10-15-2018, 02:34 PM
 
64,532 posts, read 66,100,109 times
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it is funny because my son became a partner in a national law firm. he said now that he has to pay both fica halfs , his own medical and all the other things he got as just a worker he made more money salary wise before .

as a partner he really does not know how he actually does until year end when the firm tally's up ..
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