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Old 10-27-2018, 08:12 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
27,007 posts, read 58,613,279 times
Reputation: 29601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganGreg View Post
How dare I insinuate that one or more earners in a 'household' grow a pair
and do what it takes to step out of a bad financial situation.
Gotcha. When it's phrased like this I approve. (happy?)

Poor folks and young couples have almost always needed a second income to cover the bills.
I'm not aware of any of them preferring the situation.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Northern Michigan
956 posts, read 451,652 times
Reputation: 3830
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Gotcha. When it's phrased like this I approve. (happy?)
I understand; my point could have been better crafted first time around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Poor folks and young couples have almost always needed a second income to cover the bills.
I'm not aware of any of them preferring the situation.
Been there, done that, and yes, you're right, it sucked. Took us years of trial and error to find out how to thrive when it seemed like everything was against us. But we didn't stop trying, didn't stop growing, and didn't complain about life.

We just fixed 'what was broke'...and that was us.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,931 posts, read 13,375,718 times
Reputation: 12692
Thankfully, the fake retail/education/healthcare no one can afford economy is crashing back to reality. American's do better when they produce wealth instead of trying to skim off the top or fake it. Manufacturing is coming back in a real meaningful way, and those jobs tend to pay $20/hr average. This should boost incomes in a meaningful way, so we will no longer have to fake prosperity and disregard the plight of 50% of Americans.

Buy American and you won't have to worry about how 50% of Americans are going to get by. And it's likely far cheaper and affordable than expanding the government constantly and providing all sorts of welfare/dependence incentives.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:53 AM
 
1,141 posts, read 271,035 times
Reputation: 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
That would be really neat of Tencent could bother offering his/her own insight or summary of the point they are trying to make, instead of links to social security and a clickbait youtube video with the melodramatic (and clearly false) claim that the US middle class is gone.
Read the articles and charts. What part of 30k sounds good to you when 50% of Americans live in high cost urban areas?

Make the math work. Also isn't the marriage rate 50%? So much for your dual income scenario

My insight = We're f***ed
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:54 AM
 
1,141 posts, read 271,035 times
Reputation: 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Thankfully, the fake retail/education/healthcare no one can afford economy is crashing back to reality. American's do better when they produce wealth instead of trying to skim off the top or fake it. Manufacturing is coming back in a real meaningful way, and those jobs tend to pay $20/hr average. This should boost incomes in a meaningful way, so we will no longer have to fake prosperity and disregard the plight of 50% of Americans.
Will it come quickly enough? I don't know...

I'm not hopeful.
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Old 10-27-2018, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Washington state
4,798 posts, read 2,381,618 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
many are eligible for benefits too ,which can make incomes appear greater than they are .

just getting subsidized health insurance or medicaid can add 10-20k to a families income in effect. it is possible in some instances to see so much in perks with lower incomes that you are on a 40-50k per level .



I was given $200 a month for state disability. Yes, I had the full amount of food stamps. I had Medicaid. I had subsidized housing. I didn't make enough to file taxes and I didn't have to pay any utility bills (except for phone and computer). But $40,000 a year? Dream on.

If life were this good, don't you think everyone would be living like this? But in case anyone is thinking of living like I did, this is just to let you know the "freebie" lifestyle isn't for the thin-skinned. People judge and shame you constantly for what you buy, how you live, what you spend, what you do, where you go, and why you're not working. People even judge you for smiling, as if you should wear a hair shirt all the time just because you're on social services. And people especially judge you for "allowing" yourself to be in this predicament.

That wonderful subsidized place you live in is not one a lot of people would choose for themselves in terms of safety, both in the building or outside of it. You put up with constant visits from the housing authorities, the managers, county inspectors. You constantly fight bedbugs and in my case, I have to share a bathroom with a woman who routinely gets crap (yes, the #2 kind) all over the toilet, in the tub, and on the walls, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Even with Medicaid, your eye exams and dentist visits aren't covered. And you wouldn't believe the constant paperwork you have to go through - the local housing authority to keep your housing and social services to keep your food stamps just to name two of them.

I understand what you're saying, Mathjak, but what you don't hear about is what the cost of all these benefits does to your resilience, your dignity, or your self-esteem. So let's make sure to figure that in as something you lose when you're on social services, if anyone can put a price on those things.
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Old 10-27-2018, 09:11 AM
Status: "Alive." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Pennsylvania
9,662 posts, read 3,321,092 times
Reputation: 7567
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Our economy has been dead since 2001 and we have been faking economic growth ever since. Crazy Fed Chief Ben Bernanke cowardly borrowed money from the future to spend today - to give to the banks to spend today - so that he would not have to preside over DEFLATION. He FIXED nothing. He delayed the necessary DEFLATION in order to be the savior. But Jerome Powell is now doing the dirty work, UNWINDING BERNANKE's mistakes, which was encouraging MORE (NOT LESS) debt.
Pretty much dead on accurate..... I'm not blaming Trump or even Obama for where we are at. The problems started much earlier than that and yes we have mortgaged the future for the today. We are left with a haves and have-nots economy. Plenty of people doing well, a lot of worker/slave to the system lower middle class. A lot of welfare collectors, and a lot of social security collectors as well. Far few middle class people than before.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:10 AM
 
65,830 posts, read 67,139,137 times
Reputation: 44094
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
I was given $200 a month for state disability. Yes, I had the full amount of food stamps. I had Medicaid. I had subsidized housing. I didn't make enough to file taxes and I didn't have to pay any utility bills (except for phone and computer). But $40,000 a year? Dream on.

If life were this good, don't you think everyone would be living like this? But in case anyone is thinking of living like I did, this is just to let you know the "freebie" lifestyle isn't for the thin-skinned. People judge and shame you constantly for what you buy, how you live, what you spend, what you do, where you go, and why you're not working. People even judge you for smiling, as if you should wear a hair shirt all the time just because you're on social services. And people especially judge you for "allowing" yourself to be in this predicament.

That wonderful subsidized place you live in is not one a lot of people would choose for themselves in terms of safety, both in the building or outside of it. You put up with constant visits from the housing authorities, the managers, county inspectors. You constantly fight bedbugs and in my case, I have to share a bathroom with a woman who routinely gets crap (yes, the #2 kind) all over the toilet, in the tub, and on the walls, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Even with Medicaid, your eye exams and dentist visits aren't covered. And you wouldn't believe the constant paperwork you have to go through - the local housing authority to keep your housing and social services to keep your food stamps just to name two of them.

I understand what you're saying, Mathjak, but what you don't hear about is what the cost of all these benefits does to your resilience, your dignity, or your self-esteem. So let's make sure to figure that in as something you lose when you're on social services, if anyone can put a price on those things.
what do you think health insurance would cost you if you had no medicaid and had an income over the subsidy amount . about 8-10k plus all the deductibles and out of pockets . for a couple multiply it by 2x .

i did not say everyone on low incomes is going to see 40k. but when all is said and done those "working " with lower incomes don't really live at those levels more often than not . those incomes are bolstered quite a bit depending what they are eligible for . here in nyc you pay rent in the new york city housing projects based on income so for those who live there that is a considerable savings in rent . i lived in one growing up .

so arguing what you personally get does not change the fact that many don't live solely on lower working incomes .

Last edited by mathjak107; 10-27-2018 at 10:19 AM..
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:14 AM
 
5,012 posts, read 2,385,736 times
Reputation: 9239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Read the articles and charts. What part of 30k sounds good to you when 50% of Americans live in high cost urban areas?
I would have looked at the articles and charts but when the very first link was a youtube clickbait video claiming that the American middle class is gone I lost interest in your sources.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Make the math work. Also isn't the marriage rate 50%? So much for your dual income scenario
I have made the math work. Just like everyone else (well most everyone) I started out making **** wages. My wife and I shared a three bedroom apartment with two male roommates. Here's some math for you:

1. Median household income is 62k
2. Poverty rate is 12.3%



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
My insight = We're f***ed
Melodramatic nonsense.
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Old 10-27-2018, 10:51 AM
 
9,584 posts, read 7,504,882 times
Reputation: 23440
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Thankfully, the fake retail/education/healthcare no one can afford economy is crashing back to reality. American's do better when they produce wealth instead of trying to skim off the top or fake it. Manufacturing is coming back in a real meaningful way, and those jobs tend to pay $20/hr average. This should boost incomes in a meaningful way, so we will no longer have to fake prosperity and disregard the plight of 50% of Americans.

Buy American and you won't have to worry about how 50% of Americans are going to get by. And it's likely far cheaper and affordable than expanding the government constantly and providing all sorts of welfare/dependence incentives.
Uh...$20/hr is only $40k. Not much difference.

Expanding government and welfare incentive? Do you mean like farmer welfare that's needed to offset the effects of the tariffs?

By the way, salaries aren't stagnant. Someone making $30k today can earn $50k plus in a few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
My insight = We're f***ed
I don't know the "we" you are speaking about. Me? I'm doing okay and I'll keep building my future. I won't let doom and gloom take hold of me. Isn't that all any of us can do?
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