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Old 11-01-2018, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,129 posts, read 9,217,004 times
Reputation: 8990

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
I don't see our basic rights and banking collapsing in the next 20 or 30 years, nor do I see home ownership getting out of reach for people who are willing to change zip codes.
"Basic Rights?"
Like those endowed rights from the Declaration of Independence?
They've been gone since 1777. . . for those who consented to be governed (i.e. "citizens").
Citizens have mandatory civic duties that abrogate endowed rights. Ex: militia duty ("the draft") - the obligation to train, fight, and die on command. That certainly voids life and liberty. And when government takes property without paying just compensation, say "good - bye" to private property.
. . .
Usury / interest / banking is a vile scam that has plagued mankind for 'only' 3500 years, and denounced for as long. Due to the finite money supply, a portion of debtors will default, simply because enough money does not exist, thus legally depriving them of their pledged collateral.
(Ezekiel 18:13 lists usury as an abomination and usurers are under a death sentence. Interesting that angels are sent from heaven to rescue a usurer in "It's a Wonderful Life.")
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:07 PM
 
4,767 posts, read 2,273,078 times
Reputation: 8864
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
You're right, it's not just the West. Thanks to a globalized housing market, much of the developing world is just as bad.
Absolutely false.

Your earlier statement is false about home prices, average workers, one bedroom apartments etc. and now you're piling garbage on garbage by making same claim about the developing world. What's more it's easily proven false by a quick scan of average home prices and apartment rentals in major cities, so you're either lying to yourself or purposely lying to others
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
713 posts, read 354,004 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
"Basic Rights?"
Like those endowed rights from the Declaration of Independence?
They've been gone since 1777. . . for those who consented to be governed (i.e. "citizens").
Citizens have mandatory civic duties that abrogate endowed rights. Ex: militia duty ("the draft") - the obligation to train, fight, and die on command. That certainly voids life and liberty. And when government takes property without paying just compensation, say "good - bye" to private property.
. . .
Usury / interest / banking is a vile scam that has plagued mankind for 'only' 3500 years, and denounced for as long. Due to the finite money supply, a portion of debtors will default, simply because enough money does not exist, thus legally depriving them of their pledged collateral.
(Ezekiel 18:13 lists usury as an abomination and usurers are under a death sentence. Interesting that angels are sent from heaven to rescue a usurer in "It's a Wonderful Life.")
Go to an Indian reservation where the people cannot buy or sell land to see what it's really like to lack property rights.

If you want to go on a cash basis for everything, good for you! Please feel free to make interest-free loans to complete strangers while you're at it.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,053 posts, read 13,262,843 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
After most of the last century having an achievable middle class dream, today we are reaching, at least in areas with viable job markets, a point where in order to buy property you must already have property.
Your entire post is predicated on an incredibly poor misunderstanding of everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
The cheapest houses in your entire metropolitan area are selling for around half a million and all your average worker has left in his pocket is the $150 for groceries after paying for his car insurance you need to get to work, his rented 65sqft room.
No.

You cherry-picked about 5 housing markets out of 39,000+ housing markets, or 0.012% of all housing markets.

Those 39,000+ housing markets have 2 to 24 sub-markets, so you're looking at 78,000 to 936,000 sub-markets.

Those 39,000 housing markets all have viable economies, and the Unemployment Rate in many of them is significantly less than the UE Rate your neck of the woods.

The value of your anecdotal evidence is on a par with used toilet paper.

But, then, I don't know, perhaps you place an extraordinarily high value on used toilet paper.


If those people are too damn stupid to relocate to one of the other 39,000 housing markets were prices are affordable, then double-dumb-ass on them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
In the next 20 or 30 years a ruling class of landowners will bring us back to a world eerily like the first one unless some drastic changes are made.
The only thing we'll be doing 20 to 30 years from now is laughing at this thread.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:58 PM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,467 posts, read 1,867,512 times
Reputation: 837
I live Ontario, Canada so the numbers are in Canadian dollars and reflect where I live but these numbers are very close to the general global housing prices you see in virtually all major metropolitan areas in Western, Central and Southern Europe, Australia and New Zealand and most major cities with global job markets and expatriate communities in the developing world as well. Sure there's some more or less expensive areas but it reflects a global trend towards becoming out of reach of the middle class that is happening to more and more metropolitan areas worldwide. The United States is pretty much the only exception, and even then it's heading in the same direction. You think now it's only reflective of areas like the San Francisco Bay Area and New York City because your country is so large and you certainly have the other extreme to compare it to, but that is simply not the case with the rest of the Western world. It's my entire country and many others as well. Not surprising many Americans would be ignorant that this is indeed a global housing crisis. To many Americans global simply isn't on the radar to begin with

Last edited by pdw; 11-01-2018 at 07:11 PM..
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:27 PM
 
5,426 posts, read 8,219,659 times
Reputation: 4524
This is going to be a difficult thread because it is Canadians arguing with US Americans.

Like Minervah said, there are plenty of markets in the US with plentiful housing. Boomers are retiring and remote working is becoming more common. Another thing that would help a lot is teaching home repair skills at the high school and vocational level. If the kids/grandkids can help with minor repairs that increases affordability.
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:35 PM
 
4,355 posts, read 5,286,249 times
Reputation: 4288
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdw View Post
You're right, it's not just the West. Thanks to a globalized housing market, much of the developing world is just as bad.

While I'm not inclined to believe conspiracy theorists, I do agree that the agenda of the haves is being prioritised to the detriment of everyone else. Homeowners' property value continuing to increase is not more important than a generation of people unable to put a roof over their heads.
What the heck are you talking about?! Housing prices increase because people are able to afford to buy them. If there were no buyers, they wouldn’t appreciate. I’m sorry if you don’t have the money, but that’s irrelevant and the “haves” as you say pay more taxes than anyone else. There is no agenda. There are always poor people with no skills who don’t “deserve” the good life. They have to earn it!
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
713 posts, read 354,004 times
Reputation: 1636
According to a site that shows houses for sale in Canada,
The Montreal area has 85 houses for sale between $75,000 and $150,000 Canadian.
Edmonton has 86.
Winnepeg has 89.
Quebec City has 153.
Ottawa has 371 and an unemployment rate of 4.4%.

Toronto has only one.

The problem you're talking about isn't global, it's local or regional at worst. It's partly progressive policies making development harder, and partly that some places are hot markets.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
713 posts, read 354,004 times
Reputation: 1636
Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
This is going to be a difficult thread because it is Canadians arguing with US Americans.

Like Minervah said, there are plenty of markets in the US with plentiful housing. Boomers are retiring and remote working is becoming more common. Another thing that would help a lot is teaching home repair skills at the high school and vocational level. If the kids/grandkids can help with minor repairs that increases affordability.
Being from Denver, a hot market, I know it's hard for someone to start out in such a place. Denver and Toronto might be trendy places that younger people like, but they're terrible places to get a financial foothold.

I took my own advice about moving--that's why I'm in Indianapolis now: to own my house free and clear. I did a lot of research, got some cash together, and moved. If I'd spent my time reading conspiracy theories instead, I'd still be in Denver paying a mortgage, and if I'd gotten financial advice from the Old Testament, I'd still be renting.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:44 PM
pdw pdw started this thread
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
1,467 posts, read 1,867,512 times
Reputation: 837
Hate to be making every post on here but this is the kind of **** I'm talking about. It's not a regional problem at all except in the United States. This map shows the average price of a home in every major Canadian city | Daily Hive Toronto
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/c...-prices-2018-3
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a7004796.html


Yeah when you're country has like 350 million people, 50 states and state capitals and dozens and dozens of major cities I'm sure "Just move somewhere else" is a viable solution. The fact of the matter is this isn't 1913 anymore. We live in a global economy with a global housing and global job market and just because your outlier city in the American Midwest doesn't fit the mold doesn't mean it's not a global problem.
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