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Old 11-08-2018, 03:59 PM
 
8,949 posts, read 2,467,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
you seem to want to believe that this is a sign of bad things. im guessing you wish to believe that the economy is doing poorly so you fit what you see into that box.

i dont know that people making the choice to work for uber/lift is a bad thing. maybe ask people who do it.
I don't think you are really addressing the points....here.

1. It is 100% proven that working for these companies is a min. wage or worse situation for the vast majority of drivers.

2. It might be an indication of the "two or three jobs" think...when the myth of "the economy is doing great" is thrown out there, the idea is not to give you the real information. For example, is the average number of total hours worked by workers headed down...or up?

3. WHICH economy is doing well? They give a metric but don't tell you if that is the case for workers who make less that the average. In other words, if very wealthy people become more wealthy, it skews the improvement..we have seen this time and again as inequity gets worse.

4. I just took a look at long term real estate prices in two popular areas. There have been two lost decades (little or no rise) in the last three decades. Since real estate is often a large part of our net worth, this matters.

5. Interest rates are at record highs for the last decade...mortgage applications are down and the Fed today said business investment is worrisome (down or flat).

If the economy was booming the Fed. Government would have boatloads of taxes and revenue coming in and wouldn't have to borrow trillions more to give it away free. That's very basic economics...

So, yes, all these things and more would make some question what they are told. If I can't pay my bills I don't have a good economy. If the Fed. Government can't pay their bills, the same goes.
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:06 PM
 
Location: NJ
22,805 posts, read 28,698,284 times
Reputation: 14687
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I don't think you are really addressing the points....here.

1. It is 100% proven that working for these companies is a min. wage or worse situation for the vast majority of drivers.

2. It might be an indication of the "two or three jobs" think...when the myth of "the economy is doing great" is thrown out there, the idea is not to give you the real information. For example, is the average number of total hours worked by workers headed down...or up?

3. WHICH economy is doing well? They give a metric but don't tell you if that is the case for workers who make less that the average. In other words, if very wealthy people become more wealthy, it skews the improvement..we have seen this time and again as inequity gets worse.

4. I just took a look at long term real estate prices in two popular areas. There have been two lost decades (little or no rise) in the last three decades. Since real estate is often a large part of our net worth, this matters.

5. Interest rates are at record highs for the last decade...mortgage applications are down and the Fed today said business investment is worrisome (down or flat).

If the economy was booming the Fed. Government would have boatloads of taxes and revenue coming in and wouldn't have to borrow trillions more to give it away free. That's very basic economics...

So, yes, all these things and more would make some question what they are told. If I can't pay my bills I don't have a good economy. If the Fed. Government can't pay their bills, the same goes.
im not sure why you have taken it upon yourself to make a case that the economy isnt good. it seems the issue here is whether or not a lot of people being uber/lift drivers is indicative of a bad economy. im not seeing that automatic correlation. im curious, your #1 point of it being 100% proven that these jobs are mostly minimum wage or worse, can you link me to this proof? i wasnt aware that this was a 100% proven fact.

it seems like your purpose is more agenda driven than an objective evaluation. you clearly want to perceive the economy as bad. i dont really care what people's politics are but you dont like trump right? that seems to be the situation with people who want to see the economy as bad. i guess if someone was a cheerleader for the present economy they would likely be pro-trump. in either case, they should have to present objective reasoning for their position. im not seeing that yet (with regard to uber/lift drivers).
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:33 PM
 
4,838 posts, read 2,303,094 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
1. It is 100% proven that working for these companies is a min. wage or worse situation for the vast majority of drivers.

2. It might be an indication of the "two or three jobs" think...when the myth of "the economy is doing great" is thrown out there, the idea is not to give you the real information. For example, is the average number of total hours worked by workers headed down...or up?

3. WHICH economy is doing well? They give a metric but don't tell you if that is the case for workers who make less that the average. In other words, if very wealthy people become more wealthy, it skews the improvement..we have seen this time and again as inequity gets worse.

4. I just took a look at long term real estate prices in two popular areas. There have been two lost decades (little or no rise) in the last three decades. Since real estate is often a large part of our net worth, this matters.

5. Interest rates are at record highs for the last decade...mortgage applications are down and the Fed today said business investment is worrisome (down or flat).

If the economy was booming the Fed. Government would have boatloads of taxes and revenue coming in and wouldn't have to borrow trillions more to give it away free. That's very basic economics...

So, yes, all these things and more would make some question what they are told. If I can't pay my bills I don't have a good economy. If the Fed. Government can't pay their bills, the same goes.
1. No, it hasn't. Estimates of their earnings all over the board there is no single source that is gospel supporting this statement.

2. People needing multiple jobs to make ends meet would symptom of poor wages, or inability to get enough hours.

3. Use median.

4. Which two areas? I'm not doubting you but it's surely the exception, most of the complaining around here has been about the high price of real estate. Taking an outlier and trying to present it as a macroeconomic indicator is quite disingenuous. Home prices have been rising for years and are projected to continue rising, using your logic that home price net worth is an economic indicator it says the opposite of the picture you're trying to paint.



5. Interest rates are still quite low by historical averages, and it's interesting you're quoting the opinions of the Federal Reserve since we can assume that means you endorse their conclusions and expertise on the economy. You cherry picked a couple statements to spin it but their report basically said the economy is quite strong, if you'd like we can go over the actual press release.

Are you serious with that logic you're throwing out there about government borrowing is an indicator of a poor economy? Now I've heard it all.

Last edited by lieqiang; 11-08-2018 at 06:13 PM..
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:37 PM
 
4,838 posts, read 2,303,094 times
Reputation: 8988
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
I see what you're saying. Rideshare drivers own their cars, whereas taxi drivers working for a taxi service, do not, unless they are own the company or are a one-man show.
Right, and taxi drivers pay a fixed amount for the right to use that fleet vehicle for a day regardless of whether they get a single fare. Bottom line you're basically railing against how unjust it is that Uber is using an employment system of independent contractors to upend an industry, but that industry also uses independent contractors.
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:53 PM
 
2,808 posts, read 2,489,655 times
Reputation: 5142
Quote:
Originally Posted by 22003yo View Post
Yup I usually tip a couple dollars cash each ride too. The surge rates are another way the drivers can make a decent profit. I've had to pay the surge rate quite a few times. Also you have pretty good bonus incentives if you're a starting out.
So they expect tips, eh? I usually take taxicabs, not ride sharing services, but I did take Lyft a couple of months ago. He picked me up at my suburban home and drove me to the Amtrak station downtown, and from the minute I got in the car until the minute I got out he talked nonstop. Just about drove me crazy. So I did tip him well, because I guess that is what he was aiming at, but I would have tipped him better if he hadn't said anything at all.
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:55 PM
 
12,801 posts, read 12,171,744 times
Reputation: 17528
A lot of people make a decent side income doing this. Pretty flexible schedule, and they flip back and forth between Lyft and Uber as it seems each gives some sort of special incentive at times to drivers.

If they were not making money off of it, they would not do it. Here in Miami, there are fleets of new Suburbans that are Lyft/Uber, obviously they are making some sort of income, even if a side hustle, to afford those new Suburbans.
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:57 PM
 
2,808 posts, read 2,489,655 times
Reputation: 5142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
I see what you're saying. Rideshare drivers own their cars, whereas taxi drivers working for a taxi service, do not, unless they are own the company or are a one-man show.

Does anyone know if conventional taxi drivers (assuming driving a company vehicle, not their own) pay for their own gas?
Taxi drivers working for a taxi company sometimes own their own cars, sometimes the taxi company owns the car, and sometimes an investor/business person owns the car. Most of the time taxi drivers pay for their own gas, but not always; it depends on the agreement they have with the taxi company or car owner.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,123 posts, read 13,312,319 times
Reputation: 13977
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I see so many modern and new cars with a Uber or Lyft sticker on them, and I always ask, is it worth the massive deprecation of putting 20-30k miles a year on a near new car for .60 a mile. Or doing Uber eats for the equivalent of $5 an hour after a days work.
So? No one gives a damn about depreciation. The word isn't even in their vocabulary.

Since this is your first day on Earth, I'll clue you in to the fact that people have had perpetual car payments for the last two decades. People buy cars on a 60-month or 72-month loan and then go buy another new one as soon as they're upside down on the payments, because that's exactly what the auto-industry wants, and that's how they've set up their financing schemes, and people are too damn stupid to realize that they aren't really getting 0% financing, because the sticker price of the car has been increased to generate the equivalent of 12% to 16% in financing. They want people buying a new car every 2-4 years, instead of every 6-10 years.

If auto-makers were not allowed to finance their vehicles, you'd be paying $1,000s less for the car, and your loan through your bank or credit union would be 6% to 9%, not the 12% to 16% the auto-maker's financing companies are getting, so you'd save another $1,000 or more.
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:31 PM
 
Location: SoCal
1,862 posts, read 1,832,018 times
Reputation: 1415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
I live in a metro area, and I know a couple of uber drivers. One is an otherwise stay at home mom, and she does her ubering while the kids are at school. She parks herself at the local mall, and usually has plenty of passengers.


The other uber driver likes to work in the evenings, and parks close to the local casino. He gets plenty of passengers too.


Seeing as an uber driver can pick and choose when they're available, I really don't see a problem.
That's what many forget convenience being able to choose to work how when, and for how long is a luxury item that really hasn't been available for too long. If you have a few hours a day of downtime to do this I don't see why not people make their decisions based off of what works for them.
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:32 PM
 
8,949 posts, read 2,467,601 times
Reputation: 8373
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
A lot of people make a decent side income doing this. Pretty flexible schedule, and they flip back and forth between Lyft and Uber as it seems each gives some sort of special incentive at times to drivers.

If they were not making money off of it, they would not do it. Here in Miami, there are fleets of new Suburbans that are Lyft/Uber, obviously they are making some sort of income, even if a side hustle, to afford those new Suburbans.
"If they were not making money off of it, they would not do it"......

Since this is economics forum, I think we all need to understand and study that statement.

"If drinking too much hurt your liver, millions wouldn't do it"

"if eating unhealthy food created vast health problems and poor mobility, people wouldn't eat it".

Wait! Most people eat unhealthy foods. Millions drink too much and take too many harmful drugs of one sort or another. Yet, according to your logic, it can't be!

The "religion" of thinking that people do what is best for them is a false idol. A quickie example:

Years ago an online writing service did a study that worked like a reverse eBay - in order to see how much people would work for (or, in this case, how little!). I forget the exact setup, but it was very clever in the way it made people compete for the jobs. This was international, although perhaps limited to English speakings and writers.

Well, once the tale was told it was determined that Americans were willing to write for the least amount of money of ANYONE in the particular system. The number was appalling low.

"People wouldn't play the lottery if it didn't make money for them".

Many posts in this thread explain it - but here is a quickie.

The IRS allows business to deduct about 55 cents per mile - and the iRS are tightwads. Believe me, they know the cost of operating a car. But let's be generous and say that we are driving for only 50 cents a mile. Then let's guess that they make 90 cents a mile driving (including tips).

In a 4 hour shift you are lucky to drive for 2 hours. If you average 40 MPH, that would mean you drove 80 miles and made 80 x .40 or $32. $8 per hour.

Here are some detailed answers:
https://www.quora.com/How-much-money...-make-per-mile

"The average pay is close to or less than minimum wage." Play your cards right and you will make $8 an hour.

Keep in mind that since many people don't even know the basics of business, they may be actually losing money and not even know it. Maybe they got a traffic ticket? Their insurance is higher if they drive for Uber. Since they use the car personally, they can't calculated exactly which gas or oil changes are expressly for the uber driving....

I really like the idea of Uber and Lyft. But it illustrates the major fault of free market capitalism - that is, it become a competition to the bottom. If someone is willing to lose money, then the "market" has to follow and most all drivers who want in have to lose money.

Uber is often 1/2 the fare of a cab or airport van - sometimes less. For the life of me I don't know why they didn't price it just a bit higher. At least they've allowed easier tipping which may bring your income up to $10 from $8 if you clean the vomit off from the college kids that filled your car over the weekend.

C'mon. Who in their right mind would do this for less than what a burger flipper makes? No one.....

NOTE - many people do it solely for social reason. It is definitely healthier than sitting and watching TV or playing video games. So that's an exception. I know a millionaire who drives Uber.
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