U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM
 
Location: equator
2,642 posts, read 1,131,514 times
Reputation: 6449

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
Depending on the quant it can be quite a bit more than that, but yes I agree it has no impact on you, it's more so these companies can decide who to best target.

The amount of data some of these retailers have about people is pretty astounding, especially if you use traceable tender (i.e. debit and/or credit cards). They work with companies like Experian and can identify entire households and all cards tied to that household. They know how often you shop, exactly what you buy, etc. Online retailers like Amazon obviously have the most data because not only do they know what you buy, where your house is, your estimated income (via Experian algos), etc. they know your exact shopping behavior as you navigate through their pages.

Some of the additional data I know they have (because I've seen it).

If you have a pool, if you like sports, if you have kids, if you have pets, what type of pets you have. Your demographics, your education level, etc.



Like I said above they don't need rewards cards. As long as you use traceable tender they know who you are and your shopping habits already.
They don't know where I live, or where I shop. Only my mail-drop, lol. But I do get the side-ads based on what I purchased online. It's amazing living outside of the mail and phone-call loop. But even here, we have the dreaded rewards card. Ugh. What they do with it here, I don't know.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,172 posts, read 1,075,209 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
What on earth are you going on about. I was responding specifically to someone who's complaint about the rewards cards was a fear of receiving more spam email, telemarketing calls, and junk mail. Giving them false information for all this would accomplish exactly what they wanted.
That wasn't the context I read, but whatever.

But "they might spam me" is a typical, misdirected fear by consumers who really (really) don't understand what's going on here. Their concept is that they are signing up for a mailing list and their mailbox will explode from the weight of pork chop sales flyers.

Spam is never a problem from a legitimate business - if you don't want something of the scale, permanence and sensitivity to reputation as your grocery store not to send you junk, opt out and unsubscribe and it will stop (if your app was incorrectly processed and your opt-out wasn't noticed in the first place.) Spam comes from illegitimate sources, businesses that work by bombing the biggest lists they can find and who don't give an RA about their customer reputation.

Spam is a near-zero argument against loyalty cards.

Giving false personal information for a loyalty card will not misdirect spam, because there won't be any if you tell them not to send it.

Giving false personal info for a card will not substantially warp its primary purpose, either. That's about like switching inmate numbers with another guy in the yard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,172 posts, read 1,075,209 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
Depending on the quant it can be quite a bit more than that, but yes I agree it has no impact on you, it's more so these companies can decide who to best target.
The process has immense impact on consumers, but not in the imagined personally-directed way. The facets that are actually individualized to a participant are more on the carrot end than the stick(-it-to-'em) end.

Quote:
The amount of data some of these retailers have about people is pretty astounding...
Astounding doesn't begin to cover it. Most people have only the foggiest notion of how much data about their lives and economic actions is tracked and stored. And absolutely none of this system is for their benefit or the benefit of consumers in general.

Quote:
...especially if you use traceable tender (i.e. debit and/or credit cards).
Not as much as you might think, nor in quite the way. Most states (all? Federal?) long ago prohibited using financial account numbers (checking, credit card, etc.) as customer identifiers. That's one of the primary drivers of loyalty cards - to inveigle customers into voluntarily providing a useful tracking number. Just as giving false info for a card does little, so does paying with cash. It masks things a little at a trivial level, but not in any significant way for the overall system's purpose (which is not to send you spam).

Yes, your actual spending data ends up in your marketing profiles. But not directly from using it at the stores.

Quote:
They work with companies like Experian and can identify entire households and all cards tied to that household. They know how often you shop, exactly what you buy, etc.
Again, yes-but. The credit agencies track many things, but almost entirely for the narrow purpose of credit evaluation - which has become a double-ended sword in that it's used to sell more and better credit to high-rated consumers.

But the real data accumulation is by companies most people have never heard of (Acxiom) and the mega-consumer-world players like Google and Facebook. It's a little fanciful but not entirely inaccurate to say they have a part of your soul locked away in their data vaults, and that part grows daily. It's sort of sourly hilarious that people panicked over Cambridge Analytica, who is a street-corner player in the game, and are just now beginning to dimly realize they've been subjected to that kind of secret, anonymous, immensely invasive tracking and analysis for at least a decade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
 
Location: N of citrus, S of decent corn
34,756 posts, read 42,901,587 times
Reputation: 57493
I only use grocery store reward cards. I hope they do track what I buy, so they will gear their store to what I want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,172 posts, read 1,075,209 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
I only use grocery store reward cards. I hope they do track what I buy, so they will gear their store to what I want.
You clearly haven't read the thread. Shoppa con Dios.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM
 
4,354 posts, read 4,446,729 times
Reputation: 3323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Not as much as you might think, nor in quite the way. Most states (all? Federal?) long ago prohibited using financial account numbers (checking, credit card, etc.) as customer identifiers. That's one of the primary drivers of loyalty cards - to inveigle customers into voluntarily providing a useful tracking number. Just as giving false info for a card does little, so does paying with cash. It masks things a little at a trivial level, but not in any significant way for the overall system's purpose (which is not to send you spam).

Yes, your actual spending data ends up in your marketing profiles. But not directly from using it at the stores.


Again, yes-but. The credit agencies track many things, but almost entirely for the narrow purpose of credit evaluation - which has become a double-ended sword in that it's used to sell more and better credit to high-rated consumers.

But the real data accumulation is by companies most people have never heard of (Acxiom) and the mega-consumer-world players like Google and Facebook. It's a little fanciful but not entirely inaccurate to say they have a part of your soul locked away in their data vaults, and that part grows daily. It's sort of sourly hilarious that people panicked over Cambridge Analytica, who is a street-corner player in the game, and are just now beginning to dimly realize they've been subjected to that kind of secret, anonymous, immensely invasive tracking and analysis for at least a decade.
I worked as a consumer research quant at a large retailer. I saw the data. Yes, you don't get the actual account #s, but the account #s are all married up by Experian and then sent back to the retailer in the form of an Experian ID and Experian household_id. So if I use my visa and my wife uses her mastercard the retailer still knows we are married and live in the same household. So the household id associated with us is the same and if I want to examine our HH id it would have transactions from all traceable tenders associated with our household in the query. Obviously I wouldn't have information about my shopping behavior at other retailers, but everything I do at that store is tracked and assembled into a large household level id.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,172 posts, read 1,075,209 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006 View Post
I worked as a consumer research quant at a large retailer. I saw the data. Yes, you don't get the actual account #s, but the account #s are all married up by Experian and then sent back to the retailer in the form of an Experian ID and Experian household_id.
I didn't mean to say otherwise, but Experian et al. are almost entirely concerned with financial factors, which is kiddie canasta compared to the poker game that the consumer-data-centric firms play. Money talks, but it's far from the only handle on consumer thinking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
 
Location: my little town
785 posts, read 251,772 times
Reputation: 887
I always decline rewards cards because they take more space in my wallet. My stack of ID, library, healthcare, etc. cards is at a quarter inch now. Some chains may eventually think of using one universal card, which is somewhat done now with credit cards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 05:31 PM
 
4,825 posts, read 2,292,786 times
Reputation: 8965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
That wasn't the context I read, but whatever
Really? The post I responded to said exactly this:

"I opt out of reward cards, as I am concerned that having them would result in a barrage of mail, telephone, and Email spam"



Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Spam comes from illegitimate sources, businesses that work by bombing the biggest lists they can find and who don't give an RA about their customer reputation
This isn't true. While the majority of spam email is indeed generated by illegitimate sources it is defined as unsolicited bulk emails, a practice a grocery store chain will engage in. Sure one can click the "unsubscribe" link and hope that works but that right there is the type of aggravation that poster is trying to avoid, and you're often on more than one list so you've unsubscribed from product sales notifications but suddenly getting a different email because you haven't unsubscribed from the new "event invitations" marketing campaign they started. DarkOrchid doesn't want this aggravation despite you minimizing/dismissing it as not really spam, so it's a reasonable step to take giving a false email address and having their mind at ease that having signed up for a loyalty card didn't further expose their email address to marketing opportunities.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Giving false personal info for a card will not substantially warp its primary purpose, either. That's about like switching inmate numbers with another guy in the yard.
The wasn't about it's primary purpose, it was a response directly to someone with concerns about the aggravation of being the target of marketing campaigns after giving yet another merchant their contact information.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,172 posts, read 1,075,209 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Really? The post I responded to said exactly this:
Sigh. This is neither a private conversation nor a short nor particularly focused one; if I didn't exactly address YOUR point the way you wanted, hard darts on you. The context is bigger than your attempt at nuance.

Quote:
Quote:
"I opt out of reward cards, as I am concerned that having them would result in a barrage of mail, telephone, and Email spam"
This isn't true. While the majority of spam email is indeed generated by illegitimate sources it is defined as unsolicited bulk emails, a practice a grocery store chain will engage in.
You failed to establish why what I was was not true; you seem to have restated what I said. And again, context. Unsolicited mail from sources neither authorized nor wanted nor with any meaningful way to turn off is one thing; any amount of "unsolicited" mail from a service you sign up for, and can tell to turn off, is something altogether different. Which, by the way, was MY point.

Quote:
Sure one can click the "unsubscribe" link and hope that works but that right there is the type of aggravation that poster is trying to avoid...
Anyone annoyed by one or two mails from a known merchant for which they voluntarily signed up for benefits, and failed to check the box for no solicitation, and put out by having to click an unsubscribe or two, is beyond snowflake in this time and era. The tiny number generated by signing up with known merchants and established businesses is almost invisible compared to the bombing-run crap from other, uncontrollable sources. Perhaps such delicate souls should avoid having an email account altogether.

In any case, I haven't signed up for any kind of reward program with a local, known merchant in years that didn't give me the immediate option to opt out right at the start. I failed to check a box recently, and got two emails from a men's clothier I didn't particularly want; two clicks on unsubscribe stopped them. I didn't cry or wail or anything.

But you've nailed up a great big hook for what's been my point all along: reward cards and the like simply do not work the way most people foggily believe, and the kitten-with-its-rump-sticking-out game of using a false name and address accomplishes nothing. Except possibly a few unwanted emails that can be stopped, and if that's just too too much for a consumer in this world, they shouldn't sign up for anything merchant-driven at all, ever. They might see a bulk email, after all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top