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Old 11-28-2018, 09:35 AM
 
8,377 posts, read 3,553,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Hoonose, yes, you, Mircea, and I agree that “Wages aren't based on prices”. Who was your post #79 addressed to?
Sorry I left this from last night. I thought one of you was touting prices determined wages.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,999 posts, read 60,229,036 times
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I am sure it is a myth in some cases and not a myth in others.

In our department, no one has seen a raise that equals COL increases for many year, so we effectively have wage deflation. No one is complaining too much, we are decently paid, but adjusting your budget year after year gets tight.

Most people I know are the same. The only way they get significant increases is by changing jobs. My daughter is a teacher. If she leaves her district and then comes back, she can get a significant raise. If she stays in the district, she will get basically nothing raises.

Sure the people I know are just anecdotal, but they are the ones who matter. It is not much help to us if someone somewhere it getting huge raises and thereby making up for our less than COL increases when everything is averaged. Averages are what make most statistics of little value, especially if you are averaging the wrong thing.
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Old 11-28-2018, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,179 posts, read 4,802,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Hoonose, yes, you, Mircea, and I agree that “Wages aren't based on prices”.
At the high end, aggregate *real* wages cannot be higher than aggregate productivity. Productivity controls the size of the pie.

Wages are controlled by supply and demand baring other forces. Left to nature, the masses will never be in short supply, and their natural wage will be near subsistence. In developed countries there are a lot of "other forces" like unions, professional licensing and laws, MW, etc.

The reason wages in the US have been depressed for ~4 decades, is our policies of supporting trade deficits, low taxes on the rich, creative finance and debt escalation, etc. The way to bigger profits has been via finance, offshoring, and foreign investment rather than domestic production. From the early 1930s to late 70s our economy was an outstanding model of productivity and improving living standards. Since then it's been a good example of how to maximize wealth for the top 0.01%.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
At the high end, aggregate *real* wages cannot be higher than aggregate productivity. Productivity controls the size of the pie.

Wages are controlled by supply and demand baring other forces. Left to nature, the masses will never be in short supply, and their natural wage will be near subsistence. In developed countries there are a lot of "other forces" like unions, professional licensing and laws, MW, etc.

The reason wages in the US have been depressed for ~4 decades, is our policies of supporting trade deficits, low taxes on the rich, creative finance and debt escalation, etc. The way to bigger profits has been via finance, offshoring, and foreign investment rather than domestic production. From the early 1930s to late 70s our economy was an outstanding model of productivity and improving living standards. Since then it's been a good example of how to maximize wealth for the top 0.01%.
I agree with you. And I don't seeing that changing with our mature economy. And certainly not with our probable post-mature economy down the road where we have many more involuntary unemployed.

We take care of our poor. The rich care for themselves.

IMO improvement on the broad middle class will have to come from central policy/moneys. i.e. more future new money creation will have to be directed toward the middle class. As I have said before, HC relief would be a big boost.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
IMO improvement on the broad middle class will have to come from central policy/moneys.
There are definitely other and better alternatives. But if "the people" had any power, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. And we have even less now, judging by how easily and effectively opinions are manipulated.

So we'll get what ever the manipulators want us to have....
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:06 PM
 
1,107 posts, read 588,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
At the high end, aggregate *real* wages cannot be higher than aggregate productivity. Productivity controls the size of the pie.

Wages are controlled by supply and demand baring other forces. Left to nature, the masses will never be in short supply, and their natural wage will be near subsistence. In developed countries there are a lot of "other forces" like unions, professional licensing and laws, MW, etc.

The reason wages in the US have been depressed for ~4 decades, is our policies of supporting trade deficits, low taxes on the rich, creative finance and debt escalation, etc. The way to bigger profits has been via finance, offshoring, and foreign investment rather than domestic production. From the early 1930s to late 70s our economy was an outstanding model of productivity and improving living standards. Since then it's been a good example of how to maximize wealth for the top 0.01%.
RRuff, you posted “At the high end, aggregate *real* wages cannot be higher than aggregate productivity. Productivity controls the size of the pie”. I agree GDP, (aka gross domestic product) indicates the size of the nation’s economic pie that can be distributed. But obviously the high end, aggregate *real* wages can and often is higher than aggregate productivity. What shouldn’t be done, is often done. Other than that bit of "nip" I picked on, I’m entirely in agreement with your post #83.

I’m firmly opposed to our policies promoting our annual chronic trade deficits of goods, and I’m among the proponents of the improved trade policy described within Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article.
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Old 11-28-2018, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
But obviously the high end, aggregate *real* wages can and often is higher than aggregate productivity.
You mean for an individual? Because aggregate means the sum of everyone.
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Old 11-28-2018, 01:19 PM
 
8,377 posts, read 3,553,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
There are definitely other and better alternatives. But if "the people" had any power, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. And we have even less now, judging by how easily and effectively opinions are manipulated.

So we'll get what ever the manipulators want us to have....
Sure there are other ways, including our current path. Which IMO we will result in a middle class that barely keeps up. And every single one will continued to be burdened by OOP HC costs.

Eventually Ocasio-Cortez will get to it with Stephanie Kelton, and the rest will be history.

We the people will finally learn that the fiat is ours.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:09 AM
 
1,107 posts, read 588,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
You mean for an individual? Because aggregate means the sum of everyone.
RRuff, I was responding to your words,"At the high end, aggregate *real* wages cannot be higher than aggregate productivity". "yes, I thought we were both referring to the "individual".
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,327 posts, read 13,449,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
In our department, no one has seen a raise that equals COL increases for many year, so we effectively have wage deflation.
Explain why you are entitled to consume like a locust.

After you do that, explain how we benefit by accelerating the depletion, over-use or over-consumption of resources, goods and services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
At the high end, aggregate *real* wages cannot be higher than aggregate productivity. Productivity controls the size of the pie.
No, it doesn't, but keep relying on the propaganda from the EPI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The reason wages in the US have been depressed for ~4 decades,...
Wages are only depressed in your imagination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Mircea, your post is opinions devoid of facts; (i.e. it's not factual). This is not a cause to criticize your post, since economics unlike physical science, is almost entirely concerned with theories and concepts, rather than facts. I agree with your opinion that “Wages aren't based on prices”. I more or less disagree with the remainder of opinions expressed within your post.
It is a fact that Demand increases prices when Supply is constant or decreasing. That's what Demand-pull Inflation is, but you don't understand that.

I note you were unable to explain why or how we benefit by increasing wages to accelerate the depletion, over-use or over-consumption of resources, goods and services.
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