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Old 11-26-2018, 10:54 AM
 
9,299 posts, read 2,566,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Then why so expensive to make the castings domestically?
I have a little experience with that......

First, a company of that size cannot build a foundry. A good foundry is a massive undertaking. Once you have invested all that money you have to keep the machines and line busy all the time or you will lose money.

US Foundrys generally skim off the cream...that is, they are doing top end castings and specialty stuff...and some small runs (expensive).

There are other costs that are higher here - labor, benefits, etc.

Additionally, converting currencies often ends up favoring one country or another.

The differences can be vast - 1/2 or more. To give you just a little idea of casting prices, consider a nice barbell. You can sometimes pick them up for as little as $1.00 a pound.

We produced castings at many of the small foundries in PA back in the 1980's and our COST was about $1 a pound. When you figure that finished goods sell for as much as 4X the manufactured cost, that would mean barbells at $3-$4 per pound. A set of two 15 lb weights would then be $120.

No one would buy them.

The reasons are similar to the reasons castings went from the Northeast to the Midwest (and some to the South) and then to Mexico. Cheaper labor, more land for factories, etc.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:14 AM
 
5,531 posts, read 6,211,775 times
Reputation: 14147
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith5a View Post
i think they could make these low end products but they just aren't making them because people are lazy. they just want to import products from china and sell them. we need to make them right here in the usa. i know they can make these things profitably. they don't have to be original or high tech. we can make fans and little plastic widgets like they do in china. we need more factory startups and less website startups.

I think you are not aware of the economics.


Would you work for $5/day? Then we can make fans and widgets here in America.


Factory start-ups go where resources--labor and materials--cost the least. Labor costs in America are high, and going higher unless we enter the mother of all recessions. This is the effect of locking out our cheapest source of labor (actions have consequences).


Lazy? Watch the Latinos next time they come to mow your neighbors lawn. They hustle---on the clock---20 minutes to cut, trim, blow and load up. You want to do that for $7.25 per hour, no benefits, but you pay SS which you can never claim? It doesn't make people lazy; it means they can't make the economics work to pay rent, and feed a family of four, on $280 per week.


The American model is that we are creating jobs in service industries: everything from food to retail, and more importantly, technology. Each "revolution" (agriculture to manufacturing to technology) has created fewer and fewer overall jobs. Going back, at this point, to creating manufacturing jobs would be an expensive disaster: Our goods would simply be too costly for anyone in the world to buy them.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:41 PM
 
1,094 posts, read 580,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacanegro View Post
It's economics. We don't have the cost base and now we no longer have the supply chain. We still do make many things in the USA but major production - as in the garment industry, is never coming back to the US unless you can somehow reverse globalization, which is probably impossible and even if you did succeed it would not be a good idea because it would require raising many prices to the consumer.
Vacanegro, I’m among the proponents for USA adopting the unilateral trade policy described in Wikipedia’s article entitled “Import Certificates”.

Reversing globalization is not the policy’s purpose. It would significantly reduce USA’s chronic annual trade deficits of goods in a manner that would simultaneously increase or GDP, numbers of jobs, and are better support our median wage more than otherwise. The unilateral policy’s entire direct net costs are passed onto its nation's purchasers of imported goods.
Trade deficits indicate their nation has purchased more products than it produced, and they always reduce their nation's GDP, (which also drags upon the nation's numbers of jobs).

[Excerpted from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_certificates :
“Trade balance’s effects upon a nation's GDP … trade surpluses are contributions and trade deficits are "drags" upon their nation's GDP.[44][45][46] … (44) Staff, Investopedia (11 May 2010). ” Expenditure Method”. Retrieved 15 March 2018; (45) Analysis, US Department of Commerce, BEA, Bureau of Economic. 'Bureau of Economic Analysis”. U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA). Retrieved 15 March 2018. (46) “gross domestic product – Define & Formula”. Retrieved 15 March 2018].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations’ economies.
Refer to response #10 of this thread and to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_certificates ..
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Old 11-27-2018, 08:10 PM
 
1,873 posts, read 1,762,324 times
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If manufacturing jobs are coming back they are probably paying $12 an hour and poor benefits.
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Old 11-27-2018, 09:40 PM
 
1,094 posts, read 580,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
If manufacturing jobs are coming back they are probably paying $12 an hour and poor benefits.
JasperHobbs, Samuel Gompers was asked, what does labor want? Essentially, his reply was “more”.
We shouldn’t be too proud to take more jobs at $12/Hr. and poor benefits than we currently now have, (if that's the best we can now obtain); but we should continue to strive for more.
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Old 11-28-2018, 03:07 AM
 
65,486 posts, read 66,912,679 times
Reputation: 43836
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasperhobbs View Post
If manufacturing jobs are coming back they are probably paying $12 an hour and poor benefits.
manufacturing today is quite different . most of the manufacturing positions today need to be skilled .

the robotics do the cheap labor intensive work low paid workers typically would . the jobs are in maintaining the robotics , designing the robotics , being able to program them ,etc .

what manufacturers need is lot of well paid sales people who know how to sell and A/R people to keep the company running .

today's modern factories likely need more engineers and other skilled people then they do line workers .
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:22 AM
 
1,873 posts, read 1,762,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
JasperHobbs, Samuel Gompers was asked, what does labor want? Essentially, his reply was “more”.
We shouldn’t be too proud to take more jobs at $12/Hr. and poor benefits than we currently now have, (if that's the best we can now obtain); but we should continue to strive for more.
I agree with that but it would be hard to make a living on that wage nowadays.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:05 AM
 
1,094 posts, read 580,673 times
Reputation: 307
MathJak107, we agree but my opinion our chronic annual trade deficits net detriments to our economy may exceed yours. for further discussion of that, refer to post #10 of this thread.
I'm among the proponents of the remedy described within Wikipedia's "Import Certificates" article.
Refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_certificates
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Vacanegro, ... It, [i.e. a USA Import Certificate policy] would significantly reduce USA’s chronic annual trade deficits of goods in a manner that would simultaneously increase or GDP, numbers of jobs, and are better support our median wage more than otherwise. The unilateral policy’s entire direct net costs are passed onto its nation's purchasers of imported goods.
Trade deficits indicate their nation has purchased more products than it produced, and they always reduce their nation's GDP, (which also drags upon the nation's numbers of jobs). ... Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations’ economies. ...
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Old 11-28-2018, 07:58 PM
 
5,571 posts, read 5,763,420 times
Reputation: 2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I have a little experience with that......

First, a company of that size cannot build a foundry. A good foundry is a massive undertaking. Once you have invested all that money you have to keep the machines and line busy all the time or you will lose money.

US Foundrys generally skim off the cream...that is, they are doing top end castings and specialty stuff...and some small runs (expensive).

There are other costs that are higher here - labor, benefits, etc.

Additionally, converting currencies often ends up favoring one country or another.

The differences can be vast - 1/2 or more. To give you just a little idea of casting prices, consider a nice barbell. You can sometimes pick them up for as little as $1.00 a pound.

We produced castings at many of the small foundries in PA back in the 1980's and our COST was about $1 a pound. When you figure that finished goods sell for as much as 4X the manufactured cost, that would mean barbells at $3-$4 per pound. A set of two 15 lb weights would then be $120.

No one would buy them.

The reasons are similar to the reasons castings went from the Northeast to the Midwest (and some to the South) and then to Mexico. Cheaper labor, more land for factories, etc.
Then why not rent foundry to outsiders? Or someone stateside probably can rent out their foundry.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:39 PM
 
2,868 posts, read 1,574,732 times
Reputation: 2245
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Then why not rent foundry to outsiders? Or someone stateside probably can rent out their foundry.
Beyond a basic primer on associated costs of production, do a little reading on basic economics, along with the history of industrialization. Chase that with a few entry level articles on how economies develop over time and certain types of production moves elsewhere.
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