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Old 12-06-2018, 07:09 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 3,890,599 times
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Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
I support renegotiating trade deals and tariffs can be a useful tool to force negotiation. However, I disagree with Trump's approach when it comes to China. They can use that approach on Mexico and it's fine, but China isn't some 3rd world country anymore. Their major cities are starting to make America look outdated. Check out Shanghai, it's an amazing city, very modern, very expensive, etc. Chinese are buying properties all over the world, they actually are the main reason for sky rocketing real estate prices in major cities around the world including cities in the US. As China said, we are not a poor country, you cannot use the same tactics as you could with some random poor country.

Which is precisely why we should stop tolerating inequities in treaties and trade with China. Why were they classified as a developing nation in the Paris accord, deferred from obligations until 2030, and eligible to receive assistance from the Green Fund while we had steep obligations immediately and asked to contribute $10 Billion per year to the Green Fund? Why are US exports to China taxed 4x the imports from China? Trump's tariffs were a response to the imbalance in tariffs and access to markets.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:27 PM
 
1,107 posts, read 590,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Most countries protect their native auto industry with tariffs. And have for a long time. Among the other justifications are that it keeps a vital wartime/economic trouble time industry going.
Quietude, regardless of where imported products were produced, U.S. federal assessments of their values should be conducted in a standardized manner, reflecting market values in USA domestic marketplaces or ports of entry, and expressed in U.S. dollars. Collection of federal taxes or fees that considered where imported products were produced or shipped from, would eventually be economically and/or politically more problematic.

Tariffs upon imported steel and aluminum that are not also levied upon products containing steel and aluminum is foolish. We may increase USA sales of structural steel and railroad tracks, but we intend to reduce USA’s production and sales and of finished products containing steel? If a choice had to be made, first levy tariffs on the finished products rather than the materials.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Quietude, regardless of where imported products were produced, U.S. federal assessments of their values should be conducted in a standardized manner...
Don't mistake my comment for approval of the idea. Tariffs are pretty much a negative factor in international trade, but we live in an imperfect world.

It wasn't that long ago that we'd graduated to a fairly sophisticated scheme of having multiple international organizations and regular high-level summits of world leaders to iron out differences, set mutually agreed policy and work to make the reality of a global (or at least globally-interconnected) economy work to everyone's advantage.

Then a moron who probably tries to "deal" over a pack of gum came along and made everything as hostile, isolated, self-protectionist and greedy as it was around 1900. So we're back to the mutual brat-slapping of punitive tariffs, with no real plan or direction or purpose except to let T play the game he thinks he's so good at.
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:39 PM
 
1,107 posts, read 590,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Don't mistake my comment for approval of the idea. Tariffs are pretty much a negative factor in international trade, but we live in an imperfect world.

It wasn't that long ago that we'd graduated to a fairly sophisticated scheme of having multiple international organizations and regular high-level summits of world leaders to iron out differences, set mutually agreed policy and work to make the reality of a global (or at least globally-interconnected) economy work to everyone's advantage.

Then a moron who probably tries to "deal" over a pack of gum came along and made everything as hostile, isolated, self-protectionist and greedy as it was around 1900. So we're back to the mutual brat-slapping of punitive tariffs, with no real plan or direction or purpose except to let T play the game he thinks he's so good at.
Quietude, Other than mutual agreement of a “most favored nation” in its simplest form, I’m opposed to USA entering or remaining in any mutual trade agreements for economic purposes.

Sovereign nations should unilaterally determine of what they permit, and under what conditions they permit any products from entering their jurisdiction.
I believe there are “most favored nation” clauses stated explicitly or by implicitly within the text of every international trade agreement that the USA has ever entered into.

The concept of “most favored nation” does not in itself prohibit participating mutually agreeing nations from favoring their own entities in matters that are the subject of the agreement, (except when within the agreement, the practice is explicitly prohibited). But the clause does prohibit the mutually agreeing nations from granting to any foreign nations, advantage that they deny to any among the agreeing nations; (i.e. the mutually agreeing nations cannot in trade treat each other any less favorably than their treatment of any other foreign nation).
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:02 PM
 
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Just adding a news item of relevance.

Aluminum tariffs have led to a strong recovery in employment, production, and investment in primary aluminum and downstream industries

https://www.epi.org/publication/alum...am-industries/
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Old Yesterday, 01:11 PM
 
2,048 posts, read 3,372,923 times
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Default One case of Steel Tariff Impact

My employer has been planning a multi-phase upgrade project for years that requires thousands of feet of large diameter steel pipe. Proposals were requested early this year and bids received before the Steel Tariffs were enacted.


Now it is time to issue Purchase Orders for the Phase-1 Materials, and the prices for the steel pipe have increased 35%.


So my employer is paying 35% more for the pipe, costs which get passed on to consumers. The pipe fabricator is paying more for the raw steel to cover Tariff plus pass-through plus over-head. The importer of the steel is paying 25% more due strictly to the Tariffs.


Who is pocketing the Tariff dollars? The off-shore steel producer? How is that helping the US economy?
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Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
My employer has been planning a multi-phase upgrade project for years that requires thousands of feet of large diameter steel pipe. Proposals were requested early this year and bids received before the Steel Tariffs were enacted.


Now it is time to issue Purchase Orders for the Phase-1 Materials, and the prices for the steel pipe have increased 35%.


So my employer is paying 35% more for the pipe, costs which get passed on to consumers. The pipe fabricator is paying more for the raw steel to cover Tariff plus pass-through plus over-head. The importer of the steel is paying 25% more due strictly to the Tariffs.


Who is pocketing the Tariff dollars? The off-shore steel producer? How is that helping the US economy?

How is 10% of price justified as overhead when there were already tariffs in the first place, just a smaller amount? Your employer shouldn't have been buying imported steel.
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Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,903 posts, read 1,300,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI-Roger View Post
Who is pocketing the Tariff dollars? The off-shore steel producer? How is that helping the US economy?
Tariffs == taxes == US government revenue.

Did you really not know that?
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Old Yesterday, 01:17 PM
 
66,050 posts, read 67,296,851 times
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yeah , you should have been buying over priced us steel .......
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Old Yesterday, 01:40 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 3,890,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
yeah , you should have been buying over priced us steel .......
"Over priced" because the American factory conforms to strict environmental regulations while the factory in an overseas developing nation trashes it's environment.

"Over priced" because the American factory conforms to OSHA requirements for worker safety while the factory in an overseas developing nation considers it's workers expendable.

"Over priced" because the American manufacturer pays it's workers a good wage while the factory in an overseas developing nation pays it's workers a dollar a day.

Not to mention the "over priced" amount stays in the country to be recycled in the American economy and that the taxes paid by the American manufacturer goes to the American govt to support American social services while the taxes paid by the manufacturer in the overseas developing nation goes to their govt to support their social services (and military).
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