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Old 12-13-2018, 02:32 PM
 
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maybe you want more money sucked out of your pay check for goods than need be because we are not efficient at producing many things but many would disagree with you . there are countries all over the world that do things better and more efficiently then anyone else at the moment . as consumers we benefit from that efficiency .

perhaps you like paying more than you should for less quality .
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:09 PM
 
7,835 posts, read 3,904,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
maybe you want more money sucked out of your pay check for goods than need be because we are not efficient at producing many things but many would disagree with you . there are countries all over the world that do things better and more efficiently then anyone else at the moment . as consumers we benefit from that efficiency .

perhaps you like paying more than you should for less quality .

As I said, it's not really about manufacturing "efficiency" as much as slave wages and lax environmental standards. Liberals like to "sock it to" the corporations by mandating they pay "living wages" and benefits and provide health insurance and implement OSHA standards and conform to ADA and install environmentally friendly machines and pay high taxes and so on, then put it on those manufacturers for not being able to compete with that Malaysian plant paying kids a dollar a day and dumping toxic water into the river.



Forget tariffs, we should apply salary gap and environmental gap offset fees. If US wage is $15/hr and Malaysian wage is $2/hr that's $13/hr. If a widget takes an average .5 unit hours that's a $6.50 gap fee. Completely erases any advantage of shopping regions for cheapest labor.
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,931 posts, read 1,321,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Forget tariffs, we should apply salary gap and environmental gap offset fees. If US wage is $15/hr and Malaysian wage is $2/hr that's $13/hr. If a widget takes an average .5 unit hours that's a $6.50 gap fee. Completely erases any advantage of shopping regions for cheapest labor.
Adjusted by average COL in Malaysia, you're likely back to zero.

None of these values exist in a vacuum. And the "solutions" exist only in the tiny minds that want to bring back 1955 if it kills us.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:27 PM
 
7,835 posts, read 3,904,021 times
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Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Adjusted by average COL in Malaysia, you're likely back to zero.

None of these values exist in a vacuum. And the "solutions" exist only in the tiny minds that want to bring back 1955 if it kills us.

Except they are not selling their products in the COL of Malaysia. This is one of the ways corporations play one against the other. They want to use the lower COL Malaysia to make shoes to sell to the higher COL USA. It's all part of the globalization movement. With respect to our markets, we have the right to say you don't get to reap the harvest without sowing the seeds.
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Old Today, 02:44 AM
 
1,115 posts, read 591,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
Just adding a news item of relevance.

Aluminum tariffs have led to a strong recovery in employment, production, and investment in primary aluminum and downstream industries

https://www.epi.org/publication/alum...am-industries/
Transcripted portion of Email to EPI@EPI.Org:
Regarding: Aluminum tariffs have led to a strong recovery in employment, production, and investment in primary aluminum and downstream industries
Report • By Robert E. Scott • December 11, 2018

Professor Scott, what has President Trump has actually done? I’ve not been able to find an explicit explanation.

I suppose he’s enacted temporary tariffs that are not sustainable unless the U.S. Congress passes a tariff act? Uncertainty makes corporate leadership uncomfortable. If U.S. aluminum material producers anticipate that tariff protection will not be sustained, they may increase their aluminum material prices before they’re again crowded out by re-continuing shipment of cheaper imported aluminum.

If U.S. tariffs are only applicable to aluminum materials, but are not applicable to products that are sensitive to the prices of aluminum materials, USA producers of all goods sensitive to global aluminum material prices have been placed at increased price disadvantages in comparison to imported product prices?

Are we protecting USA aluminum producers but injuring U.S. producers that purchase aluminum materials? Will this further reduce sales of USA aluminum because producers must seek alternative materials, and/or redesign their products to use less aluminum, or cease trying to compete with lower priced imported goods?
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Old Today, 03:33 AM
 
1,115 posts, read 591,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
maybe you want more money sucked out of your pay check for goods than need be because we are not efficient at producing many things but many would disagree with you . there are countries all over the world that do things better and more efficiently then anyone else at the moment . as consumers we benefit from that efficiency .

perhaps you like paying more than you should for less quality .
MathJak107, trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nation’s GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs.
Low-wage nations can produce cheaper goods. Until our median wage plunges down to parity with their production costs, we cannot fully compete with their lower priced goods.

The benefits of production are only earned by the producing nation. Individuals and enterprises certainly benefit from cheaper imports, but there’s net economic costs to the importing nation. Among the major costs of lesser production are lesser jobs which in turn affect the median wage.

Trade deficits generally do provide the absolute cheapest immediate prices for goods and they’re ALWAYS net detrimental to their nation's GDP. No creditable economist will state otherwise.
Refer to the discussion thread, The costs and benefits of producing or importing.
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Old Today, 04:50 AM
 
66,150 posts, read 67,347,606 times
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meh ,,, i disagree . it is one of the most meaningless numbers today .... when these dollars come back to us investing in our markets or buying our debt they may not show up as gdp but those dollars are back here and working.

the only reason a dollar is accepted in the world is ultimately there is someone who will use those dollars to buy something here . you can't spend a dollar in tokyo is has to be converted and ultimately passed on by someone who will use it . .

i came back from overseas with some foreign currency i can't even trade in here because no one wants it or has use for spending it there . .

it is a big global economy today , end of story . the world produces a lot to offer . the days of the little Japaneses drink umbrellas are gone forever .

Last edited by mathjak107; Today at 06:08 AM..
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Old Today, 07:02 AM
 
1,115 posts, read 591,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
meh ,,, i disagree . it is one of the most meaningless numbers today .... when these dollars come back to us investing in our markets or buying our debt they may not show up as gdp but those dollars are back here and working.

the only reason a dollar is accepted in the world is ultimately there is someone who will use those dollars to buy something here . you can't spend a dollar in tokyo is has to be converted and ultimately passed on by someone who will use it . .

i came back from overseas with some foreign currency i can't even trade in here because no one wants it or has use for spending it there . .

it is a big global economy today , end of story . the world produces a lot to offer . the days of the little Japaneses drink umbrellas are gone forever .
MathJak107, of course you disagree. You also use the word “Investing” in the more casual conversational sense rather than what economist define as “investing”.

When the term investing when used to describe a component of the GDP calculation formula, it’s meant as wealth employed for the benefit of a goods or service producing enterprise. Purchasing portions of such an enterprise from the enterprise itself, describes investing as a component of the formula for calculating the nation’s gross domestic product, (GDP).
Other sales of enterprises’ shares or bonds are “transfers of wealth” that do not increase those enterprises capital or their production of goods or service products and are not included within the calculation of GDP.

[Purchasing or trading initial public offering, [IPOs] or additional shares sold by the product producing enterprises and thus the sales revenues increase those enterprises’ capital, are considered by economists as “investing”.
Other sales of company shares or bonds are “transfers of wealth” that do not increase enterprises capital or their production of goods or service products.]

Apparently you have less interest in economics, and GDP is of little and no meaning to you. GDP is an excellent statistical description of the nation’s domestic production.
Nations’ GDP per capita relative to their median wage indicate their production and extent of its distribution throughout their population; these are indications of the nations’ population’s purchasing powers (i.e. living standards).

Last edited by Supposn; Today at 07:20 AM..
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Old Today, 07:19 AM
 
1,115 posts, read 591,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
... i came back from overseas with some foreign currency i can't even trade in here because no one wants it or has use for spending it there . ...
MathJak107, I had no trouble googling currency exchange services. Many, if not most commercial banks exchange currency. If there’s no interest in the amount of currency you brought back, it’s apparently not worth much. Did you google the value of the currency itself?
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Old Today, 07:51 AM
 
914 posts, read 391,845 times
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My understanding is Trump tariffs is mainly to fight China, and not about trade deficit. The purpose is to slowdown China with a domestic cost. Apparently, tariffs did not work well and the market is spooked with eye catching deficits keep going up.

Fighting China was because Xi is pushing Made in China 2025 that would take the high ground in future technologies in the current 4th industrial revolution. We are seeing Trump ordering hostage taking of Huawei executive in a desperate attempt.
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