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Old 12-04-2018, 12:33 AM
 
1,107 posts, read 590,149 times
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Annual Trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nation's GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs.

I’m a proponent of the policy described within Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article.
Excluding values of materials that are explicit items within the list of scarce or precious minerals, the values of all goods passing through the Import certificate nation’s borders are subject to the nation’s Import Certificate regulations.

Tariffs are generally drafted to be applicable to fewer specific rather than to almost all imported goods. Within nations that have adopted a tariff policy, political entities usually jokey for their goods advantages over others; and usually some of those political schemes are successful. Among Import Certificate advantages over tariff policy is its drafted to (hopefully) remain general rather than applicable to specific goods.

It’s illogical to attempt protecting the nation’s steel industry from lower wage imports, unless you similarly protect the nation’s steel purchasing industries from such imports. Otherwise we’ve undermined our nation’s steel purchasers. If we’re going to protect domestic steel, we should protect it from imported substitutes for steel. Import Certificate policy does not discriminate among types of goods, enterprises, industries, or foreign nations. It doesn’t discriminate between agricultural or manufactured products but rather treats all products in an equitable manner.

Both tariffs and Import Certificate policy are dependent upon guide lines for goods’ assessed values. I’m among proponents that those assessment guide lines be determined and updated by civil servant statisticians rather than by politicians. Doing otherwise is a path to disaster. The three branches of our federal government do of course retain their full monitoring and oversite duties and jurisdictional powers.

Regardless of the variable free market prices of the nation’s Import certificates, (ICs) passed on to their purchasers of imported goods, the nation’s annual trade deficits of goods will be significantly reduced or eliminated.
Even if tariff rates reflected upon import prices passed on to their purchasers of imported goods are drastically high, imported goods price increases cannot assure reductions of annual trade deficits similar to the great reductions that Import Certificate policy would accomplish.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:04 PM
 
Location: US
16,936 posts, read 16,556,889 times
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I support renegotiating trade deals and tariffs can be a useful tool to force negotiation. However, I disagree with Trump's approach when it comes to China. They can use that approach on Mexico and it's fine, but China isn't some 3rd world country anymore. Their major cities are starting to make America look outdated. Check out Shanghai, it's an amazing city, very modern, very expensive, etc. Chinese are buying properties all over the world, they actually are the main reason for sky rocketing real estate prices in major cities around the world including cities in the US. As China said, we are not a poor country, you cannot use the same tactics as you could with some random poor country.
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Old 12-04-2018, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,896 posts, read 1,300,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Their major cities are starting to make America look outdated. Check out Shanghai, it's an amazing city, very modern, very expensive, etc.
Most of these cities are are either new or based on the kind of wholesale demolition and rebuilding not possible except under an authoritarian government. If we decided to build a US Brasilia in, oh, Kansas, or level Detroit and rebuild it, they would be wonders of the world. Having to deal with an existing infrastructure and private property rights make civic miracles a bit tough to achieve.

Quote:
Chinese are buying properties all over the world, they actually are the main reason for sky rocketing real estate prices in major cities around the world including cities in the US.
Don't you mean 'Japanese'? Oh, wait, it's 2018, not 1998. Completely different thing.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:03 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Most of these cities are are either new or based on the kind of wholesale demolition and rebuilding not possible except under an authoritarian government. If we decided to build a US Brasilia in, oh, Kansas, or level Detroit and rebuild it, they would be wonders of the world. Having to deal with an existing infrastructure and private property rights make civic miracles a bit tough to achieve.


Don't you mean 'Japanese'? Oh, wait, it's 2018, not 1998. Completely different thing.

Not really. Shanghai is an old city. Beijing is an old city. Shenzen is an old city. Hangzhou is an old city. Hong Kong is an old city. There are more to list too. China is different from Japan. It's much larger and more diverse. It has more leverage over other countries too. A lot of people in America still have this perception of China from before. Take a trip and visit. Shanghai especially. They don't have all this bureaucracy and red tape to build and innovate. What would take 30 years to do in America, they can do in 3 years. Look back at this thread 30 years from now. Print this page and put it in a time capsule.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,896 posts, read 1,300,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Not really. Shanghai is an old city. Beijing is an old city. Shenzen is an old city. Hangzhou is an old city. Hong Kong is an old city.
[...]
They don't have all this bureaucracy and red tape to build and innovate.
You've just restated what I said. When China builds a huge new city in the boonies, it can use the newest and bestest to do so. But when it decides an existing city needs to be modernized, they skip all that democratic, private-ownership red tape and just bulldoze the sucker, then rebuild with state funds that are under centralized control.

For good or bad, it's just a bit tougher to do that in the US, so things tend to be iterative and always 50% old tech. We tend to have it first, then have to live with v1.0 for the long era while successor nations get to start with newer tech or have the governmental power to do wholesale replacement.

I think you completely misunderstood my Japan comment.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:14 PM
 
Location: US
16,936 posts, read 16,556,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
You've just restated what I said. When China builds a huge new city in the boonies, it can use the newest and bestest to do so. But when it decides an existing city needs to be modernized, they skip all that democratic, private-ownership red tape and just bulldoze the sucker, then rebuild with state funds that are under centralized control.

For good or bad, it's just a bit tougher to do that in the US, so things tend to be iterative and always 50% old tech. We tend to have it first, then have to live with v1.0 for the long era while successor nations get to start with newer tech or have the governmental power to do wholesale replacement.

I think you completely misunderstood my Japan comment.
Oh ok, I misunderstood you then. Yeah, all the red tape is going to hold America back long term. We can’t even fix our existing infastructure let alone build nee infastructure. Look at the bullet train in California, how many decades has it took and it’s still nowhere near in sight yet they are spending millions every day for it. I think it’s still more than a decade from opening. It’s going to be old news by that time. China still has a lot of work to do outside its major cities, but I believe it will become a modern first world developed country that will someday overtake the US. I’m not talking 5 years from now but maybe in 20 years, 30 years, 50 years? I have quite a few friends from Japan who have been moving to China because they are getting $100k plus salary offers. Trump is right about China, they are smart, smarter than our politicians.
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,896 posts, read 1,300,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Oh ok, I misunderstood you then. Yeah, all the red tape is going to hold America back long term.
It's red tape only to an authoritarian. I consider it a fairly good thing that DC can't just decide to bulldoze a city and rebuild it on its own terms, because. The real cause of our aging infrastructure lies far outside the realm of "red tape."

Quote:
Look at the bullet train in California...
Why? Useless project, it and all its kin always have been. The US is not Japan. Nor is California. It would be another expensive, heavily subsidized, under-used boondoggle, perhaps a bit more for the chablis set than the Bud Light one. The US simply is not suited to hard-rail mass transit outside of city regions.

Last edited by toosie; 12-07-2018 at 02:54 AM.. Reason: Edited out “effing” - gratuitous and against TOS (vulgar language)
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:26 PM
 
2,259 posts, read 1,216,882 times
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Tariffs as currently implemented are a nightmare.

Jobs aren't coming coming back, automation and companies moving will continue to erode what jobs are here and tariffs will continue to disrupt supply chains and further exasperate the trade deficit. Tariffs will not accomplish their stated goals and will be a major head wind economically not only for the United States but the world.

Asia is the economic hot bed of the future. That is where demand will drive the world economy and the United States market has peaked.

Tariffs are only going to hinder our ability to exploit Asia as well as all this political grandstanding. We never should of pulled out of tpp.

We also should have never dumped tons of stimulus on the economy at full employment nor should we be in such deep deficit spending.

Lots of serious economic missteps that ultimately will assist in bringing about the next recession and make it that much harder to get out of it.

Last edited by aridon; 12-04-2018 at 03:48 PM..
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Old 12-04-2018, 03:33 PM
 
Location: US
16,936 posts, read 16,556,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
It's red tape only to an authoritarian. I consider it a fairly good thing that DC can't just decide to bulldoze a city and rebuild it on its own terms, because. The real cause of our aging infrastructure lies far outside the realm of "red tape."


Why? Useless effing project, it and all its kin always have been. The US is not Japan. Nor is California. It would be another expensive, heavily subsidized, under-used boondoggle, perhaps a bit more for the chablis set than the Bud Light one. The US simply is not suited to hard-rail mass transit outside of city regions.

I disagree with pretty much everything here, but that's okay.
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:13 PM
 
7,172 posts, read 6,764,796 times
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They build the high-speed trains to link the city centers where the build out occurred first. In US and Japan, they build out the subway stations outward and the development follows. In both scenarios, developers, investors, and other business leaders know about the plans 5-10 years in advance, if not longer. The land is acquired before the ground breaks on the stations. If you own land near one of these proposed stations, you regularly receive the certified mail for the hearings for many years, not just for the railways and roads but office buildings and office parks. I would expect that the Chinese apartment developers and investors knew about all the revisions to comprehensive plans for development and subsequent rezoning applications.
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