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Old 12-13-2018, 02:18 PM
Location: Aurora Denveralis
3,941 posts, read 1,321,132 times
Reputation: 5527


Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Now let me propose a counter-dilemma for your consideration. For 300+ years, the enduring theme in the West – and now essentially everywhere – has been exponentiating innovation. Our gadgets improve, our skills and capacities improve, and with it, quality of life improves. What if the pace of innovation is slowing down? What if the changes from say 1870-1970 would ultimately be viewed by history as a brilliant golden-age of innovation, followed by centuries of comparative stasis?
I think that's exactly it. Eventually, the last couple of hundred years will be seen as a golden age of progress and prosperity - an age that could continue as the smug "t'ain't broke yet" brigade likes to think it will, were we not running up against some truly hard limits genuinely never seen before in human history. I see 2000-2100 either being remembered as the Difficult Years or, well, not really being remembered at all.

Climate change alone is a factor we can't dismiss and which will take almost every resource we have, tangible and intangible, to survive without massive consequences. It's not going to go away and it's not going to get better for at least a couple of generations. We haven't seen anything but precursor problems so far, with the four horsemen yet to come, and the terrifying geopolitical aspects have so far been confined to summit talks about what-ifs.

It's possible there are "fixes" within current models for a global population that has now filled pretty much ever livable corner, but all prior reliefs and solutions simply depended on another region for pressure relief, and we are all but out of those. The effects of population increase may be linear to a point - but I believe we're about to cross the point where change is transformative, not linear. (That point where the rats stop cooperating and start eating each other, where grasshoppers turn into armored survival machines, etc.) After all, we have the vast interior of the US for expansion, right? Oh, wait - it's hard to expand people into a desert with minimal water resources and extremely high energy demands. (The center of Australia - at the latitude equivalent of Mexico - remains essentially uninhabited for those reasons.)

It's also possible we can devise some way to protect and maintain an economic system based on workers trading productivity for support, but given population increase coupled with declining needs for labor and productivity of any kind (coupled with the limitations imposed by climate shift)... I'm betting otherwise.
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Old Today, 11:30 AM
Location: 3rd Rock fts
746 posts, read 947,134 times
Reputation: 304
Default Veblen; consumer-colluding fascism

Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
...we have a fairly pure form of capitalism that is allowed to run rampant until its leash is yanked. Then the good doggie finds another way to get what it wants. Yank, run, yank, run...and the leash has all but been dropped in the current administration...the problem is that we've flipped, as a nation, a society and very nearly a globe from consuming to live to living to consume - and we didn't do that of our own choice
"Dropping the leash" is how you fix the problem; the "dog" (moneychangers) either obeys/comes back to its owner (Govts-taxpayers) or risks being without the subsistence from the owner.

So now the World is being transformed from Manufactured Inflation (capitalism) to Hypercapitalism (The Matrix). Only the populace--not the moneychangers--can stop this colluding, debt-driven behavior!

Originally Posted by artillery77
It also never addresses the pride of ownership. I never fixed a single thing when I was a renter in my places. Why would I, it's not mine. Beyond that...who cares if I put grease down the drain. I'm not going to be there in a year. As an owner, I want to build up my place. Make it nice. Take care of what's there.

When you make everyone renters...nothing gets done.
See the problem Quietude: citizens/consumers need to 'OWN' their government by paying an adequate amount of taxes, not by having Govts' print money while the citizenry pays rent to the moneychangers.

EXCELLENT thread Quietude
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Old Today, 03:28 PM
Location: The Triad (NC)
27,046 posts, read 58,735,268 times
Reputation: 29663
Originally Posted by DSOs View Post
Only the populace--not the moneychangers--can stop this colluding, debt-driven behavior!
And their best (only?) leverage is an ability to control the number of laborers and labor hours
that their grandchildren will have available and can negotiate better terms with. The other cadre,
"the moneychangers" as you phrase it, have already learned this lesson; most a very long time ago.
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