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Old 12-16-2018, 07:55 PM
 
11,318 posts, read 4,001,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
It's not nonsense, it's an expense incurred by universities now, that they did not have in the past. That inflates the cost of tuition, just as offering remedial high school English, math and science courses that were never offered in the past inflates the cost of tuition.
Actually utter nonsense though you obviously don't want to deal with the obvious.

There are obviously computer stuff that is added to what used to be. That however is not conventional IT. It is the growth of computer aided learning. The core IT stuff like accounting and payroll systems may well be cheaper and better than they were 25 or 50 years ago.

The value of computer aided instruction is an ongoing adventure. Looks to me that it will likely work out well...but it is a different thing than conventional IT.


Quote:
There are other avenues to obtain deferments, other than bankruptcy.

The bottom line is if you cannot afford to go to the school you want to attend, then you need to find a school you can afford.

If that means going to a junior college for two years where the tuition is $159/credit hour, then working and saving money to attend the university you want, that's what you need to do.
And the Feds drove the cost of either the jr. college or the 2 year school or the 4 year school out of sight.
That was dumb and now they need to fix it. And that will cost.
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Old Yesterday, 06:55 AM
 
9,425 posts, read 3,946,200 times
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the loans aren't the cause of the problem, it's because non-college ready people are now going to college as a way to escape joining the workforce/living life

being college ready means they are willing to be responsible for their choices in college, starting with how to pay for it. from this point on, their choices of how they use college as a tool to get where they want in life is what makes attending college worth it. Somehow people think the end goal of attending college is a degree, that isn't the case. It is no different than how the K-12 education system doesn't center around graduating people out of high school but to educate American youth so they can be at least somewhat educated adults.

parents failed in raising kids into adults, and k-12 system failed to educate them... so why wouldn't colleges be more costly if it has to house all these people who aren't "college" material? College students get called kids these days, why? they aren't remotely like kids. kids make bad and costly mistakes, they should have been taught better by then.

reduce college cost by only allowing high school kids with >3.0 GPA (B students). Hell GPA is not even the same today, they use a 5 point GPA system now, an F gets a score for failing instead of a zero? the rest can go to "junior" college/aka community college, once they are up to par with their former high school classmates, then transfer to a university. failing out of community college is a lot cheaper if they wanted to test "college" first

govt loans should have a restriction based on GPA and not income needs, and colleges might not have to repurpose themselves to do something they weren't intended to do, raising "adults"

Last edited by MLSFan; Yesterday at 07:05 AM..
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Old Yesterday, 02:38 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,991 posts, read 37,948,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
the loans aren't the cause of the problem, it's because non-college ready people are now going to college as a way to escape joining the workforce/living life

being college ready means they are willing to be responsible for their choices in college, starting with how to pay for it. ...
parents failed in raising kids into adults, and k-12 system failed to educate them... so why wouldn't colleges be more costly if it has to house all these people who aren't "college" material? ///

reduce college cost by only allowing high school kids with >3.0 GPA (B students). Hell GPA is not even the same today, they use a 5 point GPA system now, an F gets a score for failing instead of a zero? the rest can go to "junior" college/aka community college, once they are up to par with their former high school classmates, then transfer to a university. failing out of community college is a lot cheaper if they wanted to test "college" first

govt loans should have a restriction based on GPA and not income needs, and colleges might not have to repurpose themselves to do something they weren't intended to do, raising "adults"
^^^

Colleges are very expensive babysitters, what is worse... College grads end up having to be 'trained' / absorbed by future employers.

There are options...

If you can't do military... consider other options.

Move to EDU state, get a job (in career field) for a yr ++.. (End up with a hiring company, maybe one that will pay your EDU!)

Uni or WY
Uni of AL.

https://www.bestvalueschools.com/mos...ities-america/
https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...lleges?slide=1
Overseas;
https://studentloanhero.com/featured...for-americans/

Consider the lower cost of living options (Van living, renting a bedroom from retired people, living in a mobile home...). If you have a camp stove, and a cooler you can eat on $100 / month.
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Old Yesterday, 03:13 PM
 
Location: California
29,763 posts, read 32,273,614 times
Reputation: 25015
Universities need a hard reset in order to justify their reason for existing. As it stands I'm guessing we could loose a good 50% of what they offer to society and be better off for it.
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Old Yesterday, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
912 posts, read 805,039 times
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What's the reason of tuition hike in yearly basis for these American colleges?

Follow Mc Donald's, branch out to another country and earn more! I'm sure China would love to have real Harvard University - China. If they wanna earn more, leverage.
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Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM
 
3,521 posts, read 3,303,571 times
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Yes, it's time for the federal gov't to get out of the money lending business. It enables universities to jack up tuition to ridiculous levels, and the customers just stupidly borrow more to cover it. A real racket.

I wish the current Administration would do the following:

1. end the student loan program completely.

2. enforce payoff of existing loans and don't let people weasel out of it through bankruptcy.

3. Track students into the trades and professions in high school and allow apprenticeships, like they do in Germany. Not everyone is college material. Let them get the training they need for plumbing, electrical, machine tool, wood working, etc.

4. Pull the thugs from the classroom and put them into disciplinary schools where they can't get away with crap.

5. Support and encourage community colleges and two year degrees.

6. Raise high school academic standards to where they were prior to about 1960, when they started dumbing it down. (got really bad in the 1980s). Force students to learn basic concepts like diction, rhetoric, spelling, geography, science, math, foreign language, and history. No one should graduate high school without being able to add two numbers together or find Canada on a map.

I believe with these common sense reforms, we can reduce university bloat and restore good education. Our education is a disgrace and an over priced mess compared to almost anywhere else in the world.
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Old Today, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,022 posts, read 9,724,532 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
Bright people should go into whatever field that interests them.
No disagreement there. But if they expect direct public subsidies via grants and Federally-insured student loans, then certainly the public has an interest in ensuring its money isn't wasted on yet another Gender Studies major destined to default on student loans.

Don't forget, the benefit of that loan goes to an individual, while the costs of the loan are borne by society at large.
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Old Today, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,971 posts, read 1,308,699 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
what kind of lousy parents allows their kid to borrow a six figure sum for a college education. There are much cheaper alternatives.
Anyone that wants their kid to be a doctor, attorney or scientist.

Those disciplines are hard almost as a courtesy. Imagine making it most of the way and then failing out. Or making it with all that debt and then realizing you don't want to do it.
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Old Today, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,022 posts, read 9,724,532 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranredd View Post
I think a big part of the Fed not allowing bankruptcies for student loans is that there isn't much collateral for the loaned money.
In the old days, bankruptcy courts were allowed to discharge federally insured student loans. There was much fraud and abuse. That's the main reason BK was disallowed for student loans. Even so, Bankruptcy Court is a court of equity, not a court of law. There have been a few cases where the judge has discharged the debt anyway.

I remember one fraudulent discharge of a student loan back in the 1970s. The graduating student took a trip to Nepal (I think), and wrote a letter back to Sallie Mae, postmarked in Kathmandu, saying in effect:

Quote:
Thank you for loaning me money to complete my college degree. During the course of college, I opened my mind to a new spirituality. I've moved to Nepal and joined & pledged myself to a remote Buddhist monastery, where I've taken a vow of poverty and given away all my earthly possessions. I have no need for money any more, as I subsist on the goodwill of others donating food to the monastery.

Naturally, I have no remuneration from any job, as I spend all my waking hours contemplating The Three Universal Truths; The Four Noble Truths; and The Noble Eightfold Path.

Naturally, I have no ability to repay those loans. I will never have the ability to repay those loans. Your best bet is to write them off.

I no longer have any mailing address or access to a telephone. You will not hear from me again. I wish you well.
About a decade later, he was found working on Wall Street at Drexel Burnham Lambert.
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