U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Yesterday, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
5,075 posts, read 1,309,526 times
Reputation: 7242

Advertisements

Quote:
Between 1994 and 2014, tuition fees at a four-year public university have risen 110%.

Future projections are even bigger.

For a private school, four-year tuition in 2015 was $134,600. In 18 years, that could surge to $323,900.

For a public education, it is much the same. A four-year, in-state school will see an increase from $39,400 to $94,000 and two-year community and private institutions will rise from $77,400 to $186,400 for that degree.
https://www.cornerstone.edu/blogs/li...hat-can-you-do

It seems that federal student loans are wrecking havoc on Americaís young adults. Schools can pretty much charge whatever they want now, so long as they know Uncle Same will front them the money.

Is it time for congress step in and greatly limit access to federal student loans, which would presumably decrease tuition rates when no one can afford to go to expensive public and private universities? Of course students could still go to private lenders but no doubt federal student loans are the gist of the problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,381 posts, read 10,169,219 times
Reputation: 15533
This sounds like a "tail wagging the dog" proposition. It's an interesting perspective, but, by the same rationale, one might also bring down the cost of homes, cars and healthcare... by reducing the available flow of income and financing.

Perhaps it is instead time for the public to weigh the cost of a college education with the value provided and ask, "Does it really make sense to indebt one's self $60K+ for a basic liberal arts degree - for which there is little demand?" To me, this is more of a 'parenting' problem than a federal student loan problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:29 PM
 
11,275 posts, read 3,975,458 times
Reputation: 4861
It is too late to limit the loans. What needs to happen is to provide an escape to the students. For those already encumbered with the debt allow reasonable bankruptcy or provide other ways to clear it.

For the students yet to come substantive payment of college costs.

The Feds did this one knowingly hence the no bankruptcy condition. And that allowed the basic cost structure of the university system to vastly increase. Time they fixed it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:56 PM
 
5,170 posts, read 6,663,990 times
Reputation: 3543
Under Obamacare, the Feds limited the amount of money an insurer could spend outside of treatment (believe it was 20 percent) due to the insurers getting subsidies to pay the premiums of lower income people.
Since the Feds give out loans and grants that are used to subsidized tuition, I think the same thinking should be applied. Tuition should be 80 percent for educational purposes. Not mailings, advertisements, stadiums and Presidential perks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,327 posts, read 13,449,313 times
Reputation: 14251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
It seems that federal student loans are wrecking havoc on Americaís young adults. Schools can pretty much charge whatever they want now, so long as they know Uncle Same will front them the money.
That's only part of the equation.

In 2016, the University of Cincinnati spent $116 Million on IT. Note that the university's IT expenditures in 1980 were about "$0."

With an enrollment of about 25,000 students, that works out to $4,640 per student, and the annual tuition is $9,800 so nearly half of the tuition costs are for IT services.

By comparison, the University of Washington spent $156 Million on IT services in 2016, but the student enrollment there is higher at about 35,000 students, so it works out about the same (although I don't know what annual tuition at UW is).

When I first attended the University of Cincinnati back in the early 1980s, professors did not have desk-tops and lap-tops. TAs and RAs did not have desk-tops and lap-tops. Classrooms did not have computers.

In fact, there were only four computers on campus, all of them main-frames. One each for the registrar, bursar, accounting and administration. Clerks used terminals, black screen-orange characters (instead of green characters).

In the late 1980s, the universities all spent $Millions installing 75 ohm coaxial cable. And then they spent $Millions more re-wiring with ethernet. And then they all spent $Millions more upgrading to Fire-Wire.

And then they spent $Millions more upgrading to Wi-Fi.

And now everyone has desk-tops, and professors, TAs and RAs have lap-tops to take home in addition to their desk-tops, and all classrooms have desk-tops, and the classrooms are all inter-connected with audio and video technology.

That's what caused the rise in tuition, the expenditures on technology.

But, student loans do also increase the cost of tuition.

Universities have lowered their admission standards to allow students who should never be allowed on a college campus to be on a college campus.

Because those students aren't ready for college, you have to have dozens of remedial English courses that teach high school English, and dozens of remedial math courses that teach high school math, and dozens of remedial science courses that teach high school science to get those students up to speed.

So, yeah, students are going 5 years, because they spend their first year taking remedial high school English, math and science courses so they have a modicum of a chance in real college English, math and science courses.

Those remedial classes do not teach themselves. You have to hire professors to teach those classes, and then you have to hire additional support staff to support the professors teaching those classes, and then it requires more classroom space, so universities spend even more money adding buildings, which cost even more money to maintain.

So, if the federal government refused financial aid to any university with low admission criteria, you'd eliminate thousands of students and all of the costs associated with them, and university tuition would decrease.

The government can also go back to the old way of issuing student loans only for demonstrated financial need. Basically, if someone can't qualify for the totally free $5,600 Pell Grant, then they can't qualify for a guaranteed student loan, but they may qualify for a non-guaranteed student, except they'll need their parents as co-signors.

In addition to that, government needs to stop guaranteeing loans that are greater than the cost of tuition. This business of borrowing $30,000 a year to pay for $12,000 annual tuition has to stop.

On top of that, government should only grant student loans to the upper 5th quintile. That will end the nonsense of handing out student loans to people who score 1400 on the SAT and 12 on the ACT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 04:42 PM
 
2,200 posts, read 1,031,433 times
Reputation: 3975
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
It is too late to limit the loans. What needs to happen is to provide an escape to the students. For those already encumbered with the debt allow reasonable bankruptcy or provide other ways to clear it.

For the students yet to come substantive payment of college costs.

The Feds did this one knowingly hence the no bankruptcy condition. And that allowed the basic cost structure of the university system to vastly increase. Time they fixed it.
So the taxpayers should bail out universities? They're the ones who received all the money

People over the age of 18 should read loans before they sign them
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
5,075 posts, read 1,309,526 times
Reputation: 7242
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Perhaps it is instead time for the public to weigh the cost of a college education with the value provided and ask, "Does it really make sense to indebt one's self $60K+ for a basic liberal arts degree - for which there is little demand?" To me, this is more of a 'parenting' problem than a federal student loan problem.
Thatís a valid perspective. Parents should not allow or steer away their kids from non-marketable degrees. Ofcourse the child is an adult at that point but it seems that many students themselves are simply not choosing good degree programs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
5,075 posts, read 1,309,526 times
Reputation: 7242
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
It is too late to limit the loans. What needs to happen is to provide an escape to the students. For those already encumbered with the debt allow reasonable bankruptcy or provide other ways to clear it.
I know some folks who applied for and recieved debt forgiveness, but I imagine thatís not common. As weird as it sounds, Iím all for bailing out the active doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers etc. of society as they completed their studies and perform a valuable function to society.

I mean something has to give eventually. This seems like a bubble.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:36 PM
 
11,275 posts, read 3,975,458 times
Reputation: 4861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That's only part of the equation.

In 2016, the University of Cincinnati spent $116 Million on IT. Note that the university's IT expenditures in 1980 were about "$0."

With an enrollment of about 25,000 students, that works out to $4,640 per student, and the annual tuition is $9,800 so nearly half of the tuition costs are for IT services.

By comparison, the University of Washington spent $156 Million on IT services in 2016, but the student enrollment there is higher at about 35,000 students, so it works out about the same (although I don't know what annual tuition at UW is).

When I first attended the University of Cincinnati back in the early 1980s, professors did not have desk-tops and lap-tops. TAs and RAs did not have desk-tops and lap-tops. Classrooms did not have computers.

In fact, there were only four computers on campus, all of them main-frames. One each for the registrar, bursar, accounting and administration. Clerks used terminals, black screen-orange characters (instead of green characters).

In the late 1980s, the universities all spent $Millions installing 75 ohm coaxial cable. And then they spent $Millions more re-wiring with ethernet. And then they all spent $Millions more upgrading to Fire-Wire.

And then they spent $Millions more upgrading to Wi-Fi.

And now everyone has desk-tops, and professors, TAs and RAs have lap-tops to take home in addition to their desk-tops, and all classrooms have desk-tops, and the classrooms are all inter-connected with audio and video technology.

That's what caused the rise in tuition, the expenditures on technology.

But, student loans do also increase the cost of tuition.

Universities have lowered their admission standards to allow students who should never be allowed on a college campus to be on a college campus.

Because those students aren't ready for college, you have to have dozens of remedial English courses that teach high school English, and dozens of remedial math courses that teach high school math, and dozens of remedial science courses that teach high school science to get those students up to speed.

So, yeah, students are going 5 years, because they spend their first year taking remedial high school English, math and science courses so they have a modicum of a chance in real college English, math and science courses.

Those remedial classes do not teach themselves. You have to hire professors to teach those classes, and then you have to hire additional support staff to support the professors teaching those classes, and then it requires more classroom space, so universities spend even more money adding buildings, which cost even more money to maintain.

So, if the federal government refused financial aid to any university with low admission criteria, you'd eliminate thousands of students and all of the costs associated with them, and university tuition would decrease.

The government can also go back to the old way of issuing student loans only for demonstrated financial need. Basically, if someone can't qualify for the totally free $5,600 Pell Grant, then they can't qualify for a guaranteed student loan, but they may qualify for a non-guaranteed student, except they'll need their parents as co-signors.

In addition to that, government needs to stop guaranteeing loans that are greater than the cost of tuition. This business of borrowing $30,000 a year to pay for $12,000 annual tuition has to stop.

On top of that, government should only grant student loans to the upper 5th quintile. That will end the nonsense of handing out student loans to people who score 1400 on the SAT and 12 on the ACT.
Does not compute. UofC budget is over a billion dollars so IT is around 10%. Not outrageous and certainly not doubling the costs.

Face it. The Feds provided the money and the schools spent it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 06:41 PM
 
11,275 posts, read 3,975,458 times
Reputation: 4861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I know some folks who applied for and recieved debt forgiveness, but I imagine thatís not common. As weird as it sounds, Iím all for bailing out the active doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers etc. of society as they completed their studies and perform a valuable function to society.

I mean something has to give eventually. This seems like a bubble.
Actually a number of the professions mentioned are those that can handle the debt. It is the others that are nailed...school teachers for example...or the standard government employee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top