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Old 12-29-2018, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Thailand
5,198 posts, read 2,483,488 times
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I love when people use the word "steal" to describe any lawful use of public funds they disagree with. Social security = stealing from me in this ponzi scheme. Income tax = stealing from my paycheck to fight wars we shouldn't be in. Congress passes budget with deficit = stealing from our grandchildren. Apparently Bernanke was stealing too.
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:30 PM
 
8,492 posts, read 3,625,737 times
Reputation: 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
I love when people use the word "steal" to describe any lawful use of public funds they disagree with. Social security = stealing from me in this ponzi scheme. Income tax = stealing from my paycheck to fight wars we shouldn't be in. Congress passes budget with deficit = stealing from our grandchildren. Apparently Bernanke was stealing too.
But did Bernanke even use public funds?


The supports of the world's financials after 2008 were not done with public funds.

$29,000,000,000,000: A Detailed Look at the Fed?s Bailout by Funding Facility and Recipient | Levy Economics Institute

And QE's were not done with public funds.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Thailand
5,198 posts, read 2,483,488 times
Reputation: 9570
Why not? Instead of a link to a long PDF explain where it came from.
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:58 AM
 
812 posts, read 450,053 times
Reputation: 1206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Tell me how Bernanke does this.
If we remember that the US DOLLAR, when rising, is the DEFLATION BOMB, we understand that and why Bernanke wanted the Dollar weak. This Mad Men spent trillions of future tax revenues (money stollen from our kids and grandkids) from 2009-2014 to manufacture a BULL MARKET so everyone could profit playing the LONG end of the market. Now the FED (Powell) is withdrawing that "inorganic" stimulus, the debt that manufactured that false BULL MARKET or FAKE ECONOMIC GROWTH, AND NOW WE are looking at a long-duration BEAR MARKET and DEFLATION + DEPRESSION.

Last edited by C2BP; 12-30-2018 at 01:09 AM..
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:09 AM
 
812 posts, read 450,053 times
Reputation: 1206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
But did Bernanke even use public funds?


The supports of the world's financials after 2008 were not done with public funds.

$29,000,000,000,000: A Detailed Look at the Fed?s Bailout by Funding Facility and Recipient | Levy Economics Institute

And QE's were not done with public funds.
All that money that Bernanke spent from 2009-2014 came from some place. All that money to buy treasuries and mortgage bonds that the FED feared would have no buyers and (the lack of BUYERS) would force up interest rates and with it the US DOLLAR. The FED needed to keep the Dollar weak. When the Dollar rises, deflation comes. The whole point of QE was to make the Dollar weak, and spare the commodities that drive inflation.

Not only did the FED BUY BUY BUY it also fixed interest rates so that corporations could buy back their own shares at 0% interest and investors could pile into stocks with both hands with margin accounts that charged almost nothing to borrow and buy. Buybacks not only allowed corporations to buy back their shares, boosting their own stock price, but they also allowed corporations to "lie" about their deteriorating earnings. You can grow earnings two ways: increase sales or reduce shares outstanding. Corporations could report higher EPS even when actual EPS were declining. Reporting higher EPS encourage fundamental investors to climb back into their shares.

The current Deflation Cycle from 2001- PRESENT has been mutated by FED shifting trillions from future tax receipts to spend today, with subsequent HUGE Debt overhang. We should have started destroying debt in 2001. We did the opposite. Now we are painted into a corner. Our leaders are smart (cunning) but not wise. Long live Powell. He is trying to save America. Like Volcker did in 1980.


Good Luck!
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:43 AM
 
10,717 posts, read 6,890,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Our economy stopped expending in 2001. Greenspan understood that 2001 was the end of the Business Cycle. That is why he raised rates in 2005 and 2006. He knew he was supposed to begin raising rates, to limit more debt. He also knew that if he kept doing that he would be blamed. This is the guy who was a hero in 1999, cover of time magazine, the committee to save the world. So he retired. Turned it over to Bernanke, who had no clue and was still trying to fIX the 1930's.

Bernanke is a Mad Men. Instead of limiting debt he encouraged it, chose to delay deflation. So now we have a HUGE FED balance sheet (and HUGE CB balance sheets in Japan and the EU) that will and must be unwound. Rates will go up, currencies will strengthen. And we will get that necessary DEFLATION the Bernanke Put only delayed. The good side? Prices will collapse; housing will become affordable; homelessness will be largely solved. Medicine will become affordable. Education (higher) will become affordable. Food and cars will see prices cater.
Savings will grow. The Speculator class will be driven off with the wind.

It won't all be bad.

Debt will face the Big Crunch.

Good Luck!!!
The problem is that not only do the Feds create money, but banks create money by lending 90% of what they take in and relending part of that and so on. We are a nation mired in debt with nothing to back up our currency besides the fact that if we go under so does the rest of the world.

Many middle class people want to live beyond their means, poor people have no choice to live beyond their means and borrow on credit cards to survive. The rich run this nation and they don't care about the poor or that fact that medical costs and prescription prices for medications are out of control or that most families are on catastrophic illness or injury away from bankruptcy. The rest are living paycheck to paycheck, and those who have saved and have a few hundred thousand will lose it in one or two years should they ever need nursing home care .

60% of people don't have $500 for an emergency which is crazy.

Our Country is run by big business and unless we can get lobbyists and corporate campaign contributions out of out elections we will be doomed more than we can imagine. We are living in an imaginary economy where the dollar is not worth anything.
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:49 AM
 
10,717 posts, read 6,890,039 times
Reputation: 11333
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
I love when people use the word "steal" to describe any lawful use of public funds they disagree with. Social security = stealing from me in this ponzi scheme. Income tax = stealing from my paycheck to fight wars we shouldn't be in. Congress passes budget with deficit = stealing from our grandchildren. Apparently Bernanke was stealing too.
Republicans want to privatize and monetize everything so the rich can get richer. They call Social Security an entitlement as if it's a bad word. You are entitled to it because you paid into it and it's not funded by general taxes it's funded by payroll taxes. Now that Trump gave the rich and the huge corporations and wall street a tax cut as Voodoo Economics to stimulate the economy at the cost of the deficit we are doomed. Trump says he doesn't care what happens in the future because he only cares about himself, that's why he is taking away regulatory rules that keep our land, air and water clean so the rich can make more money.
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:33 AM
 
8,492 posts, read 3,625,737 times
Reputation: 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by lieqiang View Post
Why not? Instead of a link to a long PDF explain where it came from.
With QE the Fed created funds out of thin air.

With the 2008 crash essentially the same thing but on a more massive scale. Similar to what banks already do. And that is create loans, which create deposits. Not the opposite, which is almost all the world's view of lending.

Within the Fed/banking system the Fed can create money simply by raising the balance of any financials' account.

So overnight lending was done on a massive scale all over the world during the post-2008 time frame.

If a bank was in distress, the Fed would evaluate it and make sure of the ultra low risk of overnight lending and then credit that institution with X number of funds. And then repeat daily until the world's economy was more stable. At any one time the Fed was on the hook for a few $T's. But when taken on a day to day lending basis X many days and X many banks, the total was $29T.

Our taxpayers were never on the hook for any of this. All this money was within the Fed/banking sector, and there were no failures. No inflation was incurred as a result. Again contrary to almost all the world's view of money and inflation.
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:41 AM
 
8,492 posts, read 3,625,737 times
Reputation: 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
If we remember that the US DOLLAR, when rising, is the DEFLATION BOMB, we understand that and why Bernanke wanted the Dollar weak. This Mad Men spent trillions of future tax revenues (money stollen from our kids and grandkids) from 2009-2014 to manufacture a BULL MARKET so everyone could profit playing the LONG end of the market. Now the FED (Powell) is withdrawing that "inorganic" stimulus, the debt that manufactured that false BULL MARKET or FAKE ECONOMIC GROWTH, AND NOW WE are looking at a long-duration BEAR MARKET and DEFLATION + DEPRESSION.
Read my last post and then try again.

Any new moneys that the Fed created for QE will be neutralized after the unwinding. No taxpayers were or will be needed to complete this. $4-5T's of new USD/debt will all disappear as it gets swept back to the Treasury.

QE's and and the Feds actions in saving financial institutions all over the world definitely helped equities supremely and at least assisted with the worlds general economy's recovery. That resultant stock bull market may be over, but it was very real.
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:53 AM
 
8,492 posts, read 3,625,737 times
Reputation: 1657
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
All that money that Bernanke spent from 2009-2014 came from some place. All that money to buy treasuries and mortgage bonds that the FED feared would have no buyers and (the lack of BUYERS) would force up interest rates and with it the US DOLLAR. The FED needed to keep the Dollar weak. When the Dollar rises, deflation comes. The whole point of QE was to make the Dollar weak, and spare the commodities that drive inflation.

Not only did the FED BUY BUY BUY it also fixed interest rates so that corporations could buy back their own shares at 0% interest and investors could pile into stocks with both hands with margin accounts that charged almost nothing to borrow and buy. Buybacks not only allowed corporations to buy back their shares, boosting their own stock price, but they also allowed corporations to "lie" about their deteriorating earnings. You can grow earnings two ways: increase sales or reduce shares outstanding. Corporations could report higher EPS even when actual EPS were declining. Reporting higher EPS encourage fundamental investors to climb back into their shares.

The current Deflation Cycle from 2001- PRESENT has been mutated by FED shifting trillions from future tax receipts to spend today, with subsequent HUGE Debt overhang. We should have started destroying debt in 2001. We did the opposite. Now we are painted into a corner. Our leaders are smart (cunning) but not wise. Long live Powell. He is trying to save America. Like Volcker did in 1980.


Good Luck!
I agree with you that lowering interest rates tends to weaken the USD, but not to any great degree by history.

Weakness or not, and it was mainly not, just look where the world fled with their money after the 2008 crash. They fled to the safety and security of the USD's and USD based debt instruments. So any weakness was moot.

All the $T's the Fed created out of thin air for the 2008 crash will be zeroed/neutralized when unwinding is done. No taxpayers are needed for any of this.

People should note, (and very few do) that a few years after the crash and our total national debt was say $16T, the effective national debt was closer to $13T. Because in the end, Fed held Treasuries are as if they were never issued.

Anyone wanting to learn more about how modern money works:

https://www.pragcap.com/
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