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Old 12-25-2018, 11:52 PM
Location: Middle of the ocean
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Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
You never read the book?
I did. But scrooge being vindicated didn't come across as the lesson
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:58 AM
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
6,622 posts, read 3,685,465 times
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Originally Posted by Sarahsez View Post
I'm not sure which version I saw. It was human actors. It's in the Wiki too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebenezer_Scrooge
It was the George C. Scott version. (And yes, that comes from the book.)
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Old 12-26-2018, 12:13 PM
5,508 posts, read 3,170,541 times
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The story was written during a time of huge social reform and intended to be a catalyst. If you read it as the difference between a good Scrooge and a bad Scrooge is that one of them gives material things away you are missing the subtle lesson beneath that.

The joy, the awakening of spirit in the old man is the significant change that spurs him to acts of kindness. It isn't what he gives that is important; it is that he wants to give. During the time that this was written, as was his intention, it would make sense that Dickens emphasizes the materialistic.

Measuring people as good or bad because they give things away almost sounds like emotional blackmail. LOL
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:08 PM
1,516 posts, read 533,264 times
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maybe Scrooge AND Cratchitt were bad.
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:22 PM
2,478 posts, read 454,661 times
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Humbug to whatever those news stories say.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:24 AM
Location: Buckeye, AZ
25,940 posts, read 14,911,496 times
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Scrooge was a man who didn't want to be as cold as he would become at the begining of the story. All forms of versions of The Christmas Carol whether you talk Scrooged, Muppet Christmas Carol, Ghosts of Girlfriends Past and many other interpretations of The Christmas Carol, show Scrooge wanting to be a good man. However at some point around when he lost his fiancee, he lost his way and became similar to his business partner Marley. He looked at the almighty dollar rather than compassion for fellow man. Just look at his stance towards the charity workers at the beginning for example of his lack of compassion. That said, he was compassionate enough to let Bob Cratchet to have Christmas Day off (which might not have been common practice back then.)

That said, Scrooge learned the mistake of his business partner due to the visit of his three ghosts. The Ghost of Christmas Past brought back painful memories of a child and a young adult Scrooge. The Ghost of Christmas Present shows Scrooge what people think of how he is. The Ghost of Christmas Present is the way for Scrooge to find out what it is like when he is gone. He found out that Scrooge is someone nobody liked other than his nephew Fred and his employee. He didn't know how bad Tiny Tim was, partially because he didn't care to know. And I think that is the issue, many people don't care to know why someone is in a rut, just that they need to get out of the rut with as little help as possible.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:36 PM
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,277 posts, read 60,617,679 times
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Scrooge went beyond just a lack of compassion. He did what too many frugal living obsessive people do today. He collected money/wealth just to collect it. That was the only thing he cared about was the acquisition of more wealth and keeping all wealth he had. He would not even spend it on himself to live a reasonable lifestyle. It is what they used to call being "miserly" in those times, being miserly was a bad man trait. Now we call it "frugal" and make it a good thing. Frugal is fine if people are prudent and reasonable about it. Obsessing over frugality and collecting money just to collect it is miserly. To me it is still a bad man thing, but I do not fit into today's standards.

Some people I know live like scrooge. They scrimp and suffer so they can save a few pennies here and there and achieve the ultimate victory of dying "rich." They forget to live, fail to interact with others in any way that might cost them a precious coin. Of course their definition of rich is relative. Some may live like a dog for decades so they can save up $50,000 and die "rich." Even if someone manages to save up $5 million, did they die rich? Not according to Donald Trump's standards, they were pretty pathetic. If someone makes $15,000 a year before taxes and lives on $6,500, has no emergencies and dies with $28,000 in the bank did they win? Were they a "success" from a frugal living (miserly) point of view? No matter how much you manage to save up by the time of your death, someone else always has more. How much is enough? When can you stop living frugally? For most misers, the answer is never. Scrooge is alive and well today and he has multiplied.
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:29 PM
291 posts, read 439,462 times
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The point of the story was the redemption of a man who had sacrificed all other aspects of his life to just one and was in an unhappy frozen state. Whether he was really visited by ghosts or had a spiritual awakening in his dreams isn't important. He awakes with a lightened heart and time to make up for his unhappy days.

"Yes! and the bedpost was his own. The bed was his own, the room was his own. Best and happiest of all, the Time before him was his own, to make amends in!
`I will live in the Past, the Present, and the Future.' Scrooge repeated, as he scrambled out of bed. `The Spirits of all Three shall strive within me. Oh Jacob Marley. Heaven, and the Christmas Time be praised for this. I say it on my knees, old Jacob, on my knees.'
He was so fluttered and so glowing with his good intentions, that his broken voice would scarcely answer to his call. He had been sobbing violently in his conflict with the Spirit, and his face was wet with tears.
`They are not torn down.' cried Scrooge, folding one of his bed-curtains in his arms,' they are not torn down, rings and all. They are here -- I am here -- the shadows of the things that would have been, may be dispelled. They will be. I know they will.'
His hands were busy with his garments all this time; turning them inside out, putting them on upside down, tearing them, mislaying them, making them parties to every kind of extravagance.
`I don't know what to do.' cried Scrooge, laughing and crying in the same breath; and making a perfect Laocoon of himself with his stockings. `I am as light as a feather, I am as happy as an angel, I am as merry as a schoolboy. I am as giddy as a drunken man. A merry Christmas to everybody. A happy New Year to all the world. Hallo here. Whoop. Hallo.'
He had frisked into the sitting-room, and was now standing there: perfectly winded....

Really, for a man who had been out of practice for so many years, it was a splendid laugh, a most illustrious laugh. The father of a long, long line of brilliant laughs."
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:27 AM
12,150 posts, read 6,312,697 times
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Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
He didn't know how bad Tiny Tim was, partially because he didn't care to know.

Tiny Tim was really bad. Trust me.

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Old 01-02-2019, 08:45 AM
3,754 posts, read 2,161,326 times
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' Are there no work houses'???

'It will do good to decrease the surplus population'!

'Bah humbug '.

Scrooge is very well entitled to live a frugal cold unfeeling life.
But it is somehow wrong to force that same life onto others who surround you.

As was pointed out, it would cost him nothing to dine with his nephew, to give cratchit the day off for Christmas ( unpaid), or cost very little to actually heat the workplace.
Just because HE wants to be stingy doesn't mean anyone else around him has to too.

Hes just as entitled to live his life his way as every one aroubd him is entitled to live theirs as they see fit.

The fact that he was 'reformed' is showing human 'nature' can be changed...for the good.

I used to be 'bah humbug' about Christmas, but having an OH who relishes Christmas and great bephews who get sooooo excited over the least little Christmas gift changed that.

Once i knew about Santa all joy and magic of THAT type of Christmas left me and i focused on the religious meaning.
Until I met my OH.

Be it ever so bumbled, theres no Christmas like the one you deserve. ' Hallelujah, Noel, be it heaven or hell, the Christmas we get we deserve ' ( EL&P " Father Christmas ")

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