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Old 02-21-2019, 09:21 PM
 
5,921 posts, read 2,685,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I did, I quite literally did, what do you not understand by this:

"edit: If you tried to think, you could understand what I am saying. Labor vs. capital, read about it, or keep lying for all I care.
There is nothing to understand in the above. It is meaningless.

Quote:
Actually, perhaps you don't want to understand, because you delusions about business will come crumbling down. There is a reason economist don't run successful business, they just lecture others about how (they think) it works.
Economists run successful businesses all the time. Someone who knows about business would know that.

Quote:
If the laborers control the capital, the produce, market, and sell based off of their own needs as they determine the overhead costs, and how much pricing should be assigned to certain goods. That is changing now because farms have become industrialized with agricultural products being sold in mass on the market, but that was how it traditional worked."
Labor does nothing that you have described above. They didnít historically, and they donít now.

 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,187 posts, read 2,438,606 times
Reputation: 2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
There is nothing to understand in the above. It is meaningless.



Economists run successful businesses all the time. Someone who knows about business would know that.



Labor does nothing that you have described above. They didn’t historically, and they don’t now.
1. Why? worker ownership of production is not a new concept.

2. If they do, they don’t run them by some delusional theory. There is a reason economics and business are taught separately.

3. What? I was talking about farms.
 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,187 posts, read 2,438,606 times
Reputation: 2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
So....you believe in dictatorships? A country where people aren't allowed to do anything that Winterfall doesn't like? Or is it more like that Twilight Zone episode where the kid, played by Billy Mummy, runs the town because he makes people disappear and go into "the corn field," when they do anything he doesn't like?

The public in North Korea doesn't invest in the stock market. So that's the kind of country you like, is it?

This is truly one of the most financially ignorant suggestions I've ever read anywhere.

Back to school for you. Start with Economics 101.
Correlation does not prove causation.

Furthermore neoclassical economics is just propaganda, there is a reason business and economics are taught separately.

Edit: also it is the opposite of force, without state enforcement of private property laws, stock markets wouldn’t exist.
 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,187 posts, read 2,438,606 times
Reputation: 2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRM20 View Post
All businesses require planning. Businesses that don't plan, large or small, will fail. Sure, electing the most popular, or biggest and meanest, fellow worker as the manager is the key to success - not. Most people have bad managerial skills. My managerial skills are mediocre, but I am far better at the technical portion of the job than my managers. I'm happy with that. They do what they are good at, I do what I am good at, and get paid a good salary with great benefits.



The market isn't really controlled by cartels, OPEC just tries, with some success, to keep prices from dropping too much.



If your current location doesn't have jobs that use your skill set, your choices are to move to a location that does have relevant job, take a job that's available, regardless of whether you have relevant experience, sit and mope all day complaining about how unfair it is that your dream job doesn't exist at your location. The first two choices seem more fulfilling to me.
1. I know, but economists like TaxPhD thing businesses are at the whims of the market and that they donít price goods to pay off overhead costs, they donít plan future investments by targeting specific profit goals, they donít use marketing to influence consumer demand, nor do they monopolize supply chains in what is called Ďfree tradeí.

The hypothetical I was talking about was in a world without these large private structures monopolizing production.

2. OPEC is only one of the cartels. State producers are no different.
 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:38 PM
 
6,821 posts, read 2,886,427 times
Reputation: 4333
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
So....you believe in dictatorships? A country where people aren't allowed to do anything that Winterfall doesn't like? Or is it more like that Twilight Zone episode where the kid, played by Billy Mummy, runs the town because he makes people disappear and go into "the corn field," when they do anything he doesn't like?

The public in North Korea doesn't invest in the stock market. So that's the kind of country you like, is it?

This is truly one of the most financially ignorant suggestions I've ever read anywhere.

Back to school for you. Start with Economics 101.
Nope, I like Norway Denmark Switzerland Germany maybe Russia

Not venesula or North Korea, you know that bringing it up is tired tripe so why even try?
 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,187 posts, read 2,438,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxPhd View Post
Explain the straw man youíre seeing, and we can discuss it.



That oil was used as the example to illustrate the point in no way invalidates the point. However, since you arenít able to understand that, Iíll simplify it for you.

You are a manufacturer of widgets, and with your cost structure, you need to sell your widgets for $20 each in order to recover your costs and earn the returns that you require. The market price for comparable widgets is currently $5 each. How many widgets will you be selling today?

Tell us all about how the selling price is related to the cost.



Quote my post and we can discuss it. You didnít understand it then, and you donít understand it now.
1. Either you purposefully confused costs as in the cost people pay for a good for the cost a company must subtract from their revenue to get profit, or if you did understand that is worse because you don't know companies price goods based on overhead costs.

2. Now we are really headed off a cliff. Widgets are different depending on their producer, by your own system they should have different prices as they all have radically different demands, what you are now saying is that the market price is heavily influenced by cost of production, something Adam Smith understood.

But let me give you a simpler example you understand, is the sale of sports clothing like hats priced by how much popularity one type of hat with a certain logo on it is, or is pricing handled by the total labor, shipping, and licensing costs to pay off this overhead?


3. You know exactly what you posted. You said a bird is an example of an exception to the laws of gravity just like a Veblen good is an exception to the laws of demand.

That is a radically insane and incorrect thing to say, just admit it.
 
Old 02-21-2019, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,187 posts, read 2,438,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1 View Post
1. If we had a business economy like you prescribe, I guarantee the international companies would no longer be located in the U.S.

2. The laborer has made a choice to only work for a wage. In this country, the laborer has individual rights and worker protections and is free to become educated and save/invest wages/pursue funding to set a path where he/she has control over the capital produced. It is not slavery when the laborer receives mandated minimum wages, has worker protection laws, and has the freedom to leave at any time.

3. A product is not just a result of the laborer. It is the culmination of all types of R&D, a myriad of business mgrs/specialists, as well as the effective use/investment of capital by people who are risking $ they could invest in other areas. These capitalists have often invested heavily in gaining expertise and have delayed financial gratification in other areas. There is reward for this.

4. The value of a product/pricing is regulated by supply and demand. Subjective individual evaluation by consumers (rational choice theory) creates value and promotes beneficial innovation/product choices, which is contrary to the failed labor theory of value you Marxists extol.
1. Good

2. Wage slavery is a term that has existed since the roman empire. It is impossible to avoid as the economy becomes more corporate and people have less control over their labor. That is a discernible fact, and the laws back these private institutions as they are deemed as more efficient than smaller more democratic production.
But let me ask you this, politically China is more efficient as it is run like a corporation, should be copy their model politically?

3. I know, companies have to look at many costs to determine pricing, supply and demand are just tools to be manipulated by marketing and control of the supply chain.

Yes in a free economy living standards from consumption will drop, but you ignore the fact that cooperatives form larger federations from working together with different production centers and organically forming a supply chain, just not a bureaucratic top down one you see today.

4. Lol, I am not a Marxist. Many things are influenced by scarcity and demand, corporate products are not one of them. They have to be priced by labor value, production/shipping costs, and R&D as you mentioned. Pretending that supply and demand control corporate markets ignores the fact that large businesses agreed long ago not to compete to lower prices as that would bankrupt the economy.

All economic growth requires heavy planning, which requires a necessary profit pool to draw from, and if companies had massively changing profits from losses by allowing products to drop below their overhead costs in mass, then that planning won't be able to happen.

And then you further ignore the extensive usage of internal supply chains, marketing, and market placement to influence demand AND supply artificially.
 
Old 02-22-2019, 04:40 AM
 
2,502 posts, read 1,607,932 times
Reputation: 5424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Friend, without corporate competition, small businesses could actually survive.
Do you think large corporations started as international operations or as small businesses themselves?

Also, 9 in 10 Fortune 500 companies from 1955 were either bankrupted, merged, acquired, ect compared to the list in 2017. The average time spent in the Fortune 500 is down from over 33 years to about 14. No business is safe. No matter their size or success at one point.
Fortune 500 firms 1955 v. 2017: Only 60 remain, thanks to the creative destruction that fuels economic prosperity - AEI

Do you really think a localized business is really ďcompetingĒ with large corporations for their true success or failure?
 
Old 02-22-2019, 04:56 AM
 
2,502 posts, read 1,607,932 times
Reputation: 5424
Quote:
Originally Posted by pittsflyer View Post
Nope, I like Norway Denmark Switzerland Germany maybe Russia

Not venesula or North Korea, you know that bringing it up is tired tripe so why even try?
Have you spent time in any of those countries? As in lived and worked there? Have you ever considered moving there and working there? There are always opportunity for assignments in EUROPE.
 
Old 02-22-2019, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,187 posts, read 2,438,606 times
Reputation: 2453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Have you spent time in any of those countries? As in lived and worked there? Have you ever considered moving there and working there? There are always opportunity for assignments in EUROPE.
Of course, you go where your corporate masters tell you you can go. What a free society.
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