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Old 01-17-2019, 04:39 PM
 
4,890 posts, read 2,556,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
STV is the exact opposite of state planning.

And the invisible hand is nonsense, it is the accumulative force of market sellers distorting value to best benefit their bottom line.

The truth is goods access value by they're function, and that is relative to each individual. Scarcity is an affect of this, it does not itself cause value.

Gold for example does not have functional value and as such does not gain value from scarcity unless people put value on it for iconic purposes rather than potential value storage.

People buying things for their value cause house flipping, concentration of wealth, and distortion of markets. If people spent money based on what they want/need, then value would not determine that, but function.
Malarkey.

So you're saying you would eat a single-celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals for every meal. Everything the body needs! Instead of say getting a medium cooked well seasoned steak or fresh fruit or a nice freshly dressed salad?

That's make believe and you know it.

 
Old 01-17-2019, 04:41 PM
 
1,392 posts, read 440,848 times
Reputation: 2961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
In terms of capitalism it would be bad.

But if production and distribution where changed in nature, these public issues wouldn't arise.

Take Venezuela (where I think your picture is from), the country produced even at this time enough to feed everyone, it was market distribution and sales value that changed it.

Venezuela's authoritarian state changed a lot of things, least of all inflation.
There's always goods that someone else produced you can take from in your ideal world, isn't there? Please just admit to laziness already. You refuse to start or create anything yourself, you work part time now, you just want to take what other, hard working people produce so that you don't need to put in as much effort.

Best of luck to you. Once you graduate from college and get into the world, I hope you come back to this thread and apologize for this silliness. I guarantee you'll look back at this and cringe in a few years. You are convinced you know better than everyone, refuse to listen, so the best thing for everyone is to stop responding to you and let this absurd thread die. This is my last response here, I hope others follow suit.

Last edited by Lekrii; 01-17-2019 at 05:09 PM..
 
Old 01-17-2019, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,189 posts, read 2,423,520 times
Reputation: 2452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
There's always goods that someone else produced you can take from in your ideal world, isn't there? Please just admit to laziness already. You refuse to start or create anything yourself, you work part time now, you just want to take what other, hard working people produce so that you don't need to put in as much effort.

Best of luck to you. Once you graduate from college and get into the world, I hope you come back to this thread and apologize for this silliness. I guarantee you'll look back at this and cringe in a few years. You are convinced you know better than everyone, refuse to listen, so the best thing for everyone is to stop responding to you and let this absurd thread die. This is my last response here, I hope others follow suit.
1. Thatís not it at all. Cooperatives trading production based off of need doesnít mean taking from others. Personal production does not require excess production.

2. Your last paragraph is pathetic, not only do you know nothing about me, you pretend to understand that cooperative production is different from personal production, or if you do refuse to acknowledge the difference.

You donít have to agree, but discuss the subject with respect or donít say anything at all.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,189 posts, read 2,423,520 times
Reputation: 2452
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Malarkey.

So you're saying you would eat a single-celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals for every meal. Everything the body needs! Instead of say getting a medium cooked well seasoned steak or fresh fruit or a nice freshly dressed salad?

That's make believe and you know it.
Where did I say that?

Personal value applies to function. Paintings function based on the value people get from it, itís subjective.

A paintings value isnít placed by its universal pricing.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 05:11 PM
 
4,890 posts, read 2,556,460 times
Reputation: 4251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Where did I say that?

Personal value applies to function. Paintings function based on the value people get from it, it’s subjective.

A paintings value isn’t placed by its universal pricing.
Uh, capitalism isn't about "universal pricing", it's about setting a price for a product, and finding a consumer at a certain price aka price discovery. If you have ONE painting that someone is willing to pay $20,000,000 for, does it matter that 100,000 other people wouldn't "universally" pay $20,000,000 for that painting?

Be honest here, do you actually understand how capitalism works?
 
Old 01-17-2019, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,189 posts, read 2,423,520 times
Reputation: 2452
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
Uh, capitalism isn't about "universal pricing", it's about setting a price for a product, and finding a consumer at a certain price aka price discovery. If you have ONE painting that someone is willing to pay $20,000,000 for, does it matter that 100,000 other people wouldn't "universally" pay $20,000,000 for that painting?

Be honest here, do you actually understand how capitalism works?
You still donít get what Iím saying.

Firstly oil prices in a free market to have market value, and while specific value is not placed on specific marketable goods, General prices are set on goods from specific painters, etc.

If you take away numerical pricing, value cannot be stored in goods, and functional value (including scarcity and wants) would be the basis of consumption.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 05:59 PM
 
4,890 posts, read 2,556,460 times
Reputation: 4251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
If you take away numerical pricing, value cannot be stored in goods, and functional value (including scarcity and wants) would be the basis of consumption.
WTF, how do you "take away" scarcity?
 
Old 01-17-2019, 06:04 PM
 
4,890 posts, read 2,556,460 times
Reputation: 4251
Basically what you're describing is a quasi-Rawlsian Veil of Ignorance.

It does not, or never would work, in a society where people are simply different, culturally, uniquely, etc. It ignores the natural diversity of human beings.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, Ca
6,261 posts, read 3,530,529 times
Reputation: 14789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
It is only a tax on profits (so not total sale value).

I'm not supporting it from a tax revenue stand point, I don't care about that, but it would lower economic activity in the corporate sector and dissuade people from investing (and inflating) the stock market.

The materialistic profit motive that has driven our economy has built an authoritarian state where money buys you freedom, and the more money you have, the more freedom you have as well.

To create a freer society it must be more egalitarian and not based on increasing economic activity.

Also in the long run it will lower government revenues and slow imperialistic ambitions abroad.

Furthermore people will be happier not trying to become millionaires and building a life rather than making a living.
Love people like you... You’ve probably got nothing so you have nothing to lose.
Stealing from others is always easier than going out and earning it for yourself.
You have no ambition other than to profit from ambitious people’s hard work.
 
Old 01-17-2019, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
9,189 posts, read 2,423,520 times
Reputation: 2452
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
WTF, how do you "take away" scarcity?

What is wrong with you?

How the hell did I say that????

edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
You still don’t get what I’m saying.

Firstly oil prices in a free market to have market value, and while specific value is not placed on specific marketable goods, General prices are set on goods from specific painters, etc.

If you take away numerical pricing, value cannot be stored in goods, and functional value (including scarcity and wants) would be the basis of consumption.
Read for the love of god, and stop lying. "and functional value (INCLUDING scarcity) would be the basis of consumption". Why do you have to lie so much?
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