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Old 01-12-2019, 05:03 PM
 
1,205 posts, read 619,474 times
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Sales tax.

To the extent that general sales taxes are waived upon sales of products that are more often or in greater quantities consumed or used per capita by lower income persons, and upon capped monthly amounts of rent and utility service products sold and delivered to individual residences, a flat general sales tax can in effect be less regressive and more progressive.

Tax regulations differentiating between how incomes are derived, or who between different classifications of taxpayers may be drafted to be more progressive, but such regulations are themselves usually regressive granting reductions of taxable income classifications that are usually not applicable to lower-income earners. In general the greatest losses of tax revenues are due to extremely regressive tax loop-holes favoring higher-income earners. Effectively, federal income taxes are not as progressive as conservatives wish us to believe.

I do not believe we could or should replace the majority of our income taxes with a general sales tax, and any substantial federal sales tax should be accompanied by compensating populist entitlements to compensate the poor for the sales taxes they'll be paying.

But USA's consumption rather than what we state within our income tax returns, are more accurate reflections of individuals actual incomes and wealth.

Last edited by Supposn; 01-12-2019 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
4,774 posts, read 1,573,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
To the extent that general sales taxes are waived upon sales of products that are more often or in greater quantities consumed or used per capita by lower income persons...
Other than food generally being exempt, with prepared (fast) food being excluded from that, what are you referring to here?
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Other than food generally being exempt, with prepared (fast) food being excluded from that, what are you referring to here?
Quietude, my opinion is medicine, or food other than that supplied by restaurants, or caterers, not be subject to the general sales tax.

If we could draft a law that would not tax mass transportation but would not waive taxes upon long distance or luxury travel, I would prefer such transactions not be taxed. Similarly I don't believe we can or should try to draft a regulation differentiating between “fast food” and other restaurants; I don't believe we should try to do so because the loss of tax revenue is too great. Remember what's the purpose of a tax.

It's difficult to draft legislation the parses ordinary and luxury priced products, I’d want much fewer waivers of sales taxes on classes of products.
In our computer age. that’s much less of a problem for products that can be associated with a primary residence.
We can waive taxes on monthly capped values of dollars and/or units of utility products associated with a specific primary residence. Where the caps are dollars, those dollars should be annually cost-of-living-adjusted, (i.e. COLA'd). This can be applied to such basic products as rent, gas, electric, water, or sewage service. These are utility services delivered to homes by cables or pipes can and usually are monitored.
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
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So you're saying food and medicine are used disproportionately by the lower economic masses?

There are very few exemptions to sales taxes, in my 3-state plus national-sales experience. Sometimes there are special tiers for, say, noncommercial vehicles or farm equipment, but in general everything sold to an end user is subject to sales or equivalent use tax. Grocery food and medicine are about the only universal exemptions. And once in a while you run into states that waive sales tax for some short window of the year (CT does it for "back to school," and it's limited to a few hundred dollars in broad clothing, school supply and similar categories.)

So what is it exactly you propose changing, here?
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:27 PM
 
1,205 posts, read 619,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So you're saying food and medicine are used disproportionately by the lower economic masses?

There are very few exemptions to sales taxes, in my 3-state plus national-sales experience. Sometimes there are special tiers for, say, noncommercial vehicles or farm equipment, but in general everything sold to an end user is subject to sales or equivalent use tax. Grocery food and medicine are about the only universal exemptions. And once in a while you run into states that waive sales tax for some short window of the year (CT does it for "back to school," and it's limited to a few hundred dollars in broad clothing, school supply and similar categories.)

So what is it exactly you propose changing, here?
Quietude, you didn't pay attention to what was posted; my opinion is medicine, or food other than that supplied by restaurants, or caterers, not be subject to the general sales tax.

I thought that post #3 had some very explicit suggestions as to what I believe should be exempt from sales tax.

Perhaps you're have not experienced “capped” sales taxes waivers on specific types of products. NY State waives sales tax on clothing items that sell for no more than $110.
I'm suggesting waivers upon specific “capped” amounts of monthly quantities or dollar amounts of products “delivered” to primary residents. If the cap is expressed in dollar amounts, that cap should be monitored and annually consumer-price adjusted annually.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:27 PM
 
1,205 posts, read 619,474 times
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
FICA, particularly FICA levied upon employees is a regressive tax:... FICA payroll taxes are among, if not the most regressive of all U.S. Federal taxes.
Quietude, I perceive an economic advantage to reducing Our FICA payroll tax from 15.3% to 6.2% and replacing the lost tax revenue with a federal general sales tax of effectively 4.55% .

Refer to the thread below, “Replacing reduced FICA payroll tax rates with a federal general sales tax”.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Replacing reduced FICA payroll tax rates with a federal general sales tax.

Transcribed from the thread:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=49254002

I advocate to some extent reducing the FICA payroll based tax for funding Social Security retirement, and replacing it with revenue from a general sales tax. Due to the general sales tax there’d be no net tax reduction to employees, but it would increase tax revenue ear marked for Social Security retirement, better enabling full Social Security benefits for the benefit of employees when they retire. this is of some net financial benefit to retiring employees’ families and of net economic benefit to our nation. ...
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Old 01-14-2019, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,512 posts, read 13,600,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sales tax.

To the extent that general sales taxes are waived upon sales of products that are more often or in greater quantities consumed or used per capita by lower income persons, and upon capped monthly amounts of rent and utility service products sold and delivered to individual residences, a flat general sales tax can in effect be less regressive and more progressive.
Your ability to be grossly misinformed or uniformed never ceases to amaze me.

There is no country on Earth that does that.

In every foreign State that has a value added tax (VAT), unprepared food, meaning food that doesn't come from a restaurant, housing (excepting hotel/motel), legal services, education by State authorized providers (that means private school, university and technical/vocational tuition are exempt but videos or seminars on how to flip houses are not) and medical care (excepting elective or cosmetic procedures and elective or cosmetic medical devices and equipment) are exempt from a VAT.

In EU member-States as well as many other foreign States, all infant items (excepting toys) are exempt from VAT, and that includes clothing and accessories for children up to 5 years of age, and car safety seats for children of any age.
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:31 PM
 
1,205 posts, read 619,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Your ability to be grossly misinformed or uniformed never ceases to amaze me.

There is no country on Earth that does that.

In every foreign State that has a value added tax (VAT), unprepared food, meaning food that doesn't come from a restaurant, housing (excepting hotel/motel), legal services, education by State authorized providers (that means private school, university and technical/vocational tuition are exempt but videos or seminars on how to flip houses are not) and medical care (excepting elective or cosmetic procedures and elective or cosmetic medical devices and equipment) are exempt from a VAT.

In EU member-States as well as many other foreign States, all infant items (excepting toys) are exempt from VAT, and that includes clothing and accessories for children up to 5 years of age, and car safety seats for children of any age.
Mircea, grossly misinformed or uniformed about what? No country on Earth that does what? Did I post anything that contradicted you?
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Old Today, 09:01 AM
 
240 posts, read 37,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Sales tax.

To the extent that general sales taxes are waived upon sales of products that are more often or in greater quantities consumed or used per capita by lower income persons, and upon capped monthly amounts of rent and utility service products sold and delivered to individual residences, a flat general sales tax can in effect be less regressive and more progressive.

Tax regulations differentiating between how incomes are derived, or who between different classifications of taxpayers may be drafted to be more progressive, but such regulations are themselves usually regressive granting reductions of taxable income classifications that are usually not applicable to lower-income earners. In general the greatest losses of tax revenues are due to extremely regressive tax loop-holes favoring higher-income earners. Effectively, federal income taxes are not as progressive as conservatives wish us to believe.

I do not believe we could or should replace the majority of our income taxes with a general sales tax, and any substantial federal sales tax should be accompanied by compensating populist entitlements to compensate the poor for the sales taxes they'll be paying.

But USA's consumption rather than what we state within our income tax returns, are more accurate reflections of individuals actual incomes and wealth.

It is possible to construct a progressive consumption tax such that the first $N is untaxed and then follows progressive tax brackets to be as progressive as desired -- even AOC-style progressive.
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Old Today, 11:25 AM
 
1,205 posts, read 619,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
It is possible to construct a progressive consumption tax such that the first $N is untaxed and then follows progressive tax brackets to be as progressive as desired -- even AOC-style progressive.
RationalExpectations, for some items within a sales tax applicable to almost all general items, yes we can do exactly that and reduce the regressive character of the general sales tax without actually invoking AOC's more extremely radical concepts.

Refer to the 1st post within this discussion thread.
It's all about reducing, (the tax cannot be drafted to eliminate), a general sales taxes effectively regressive character when levied upon those individuals that are poorer.

I suppose we could admininstrate an actual "progressive consumption tax" within a cashless society where our entire purchases were conducted with government monitored credit or debit cards.
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