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Old 01-13-2019, 10:39 PM
 
1,194 posts, read 614,249 times
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Political conservatives are more likely believe those whose incomes are insufficient to be subject to federal income tax, pay no federal taxes and contribute nothing to USA's economy.

They're also likely to be opposed to corporate taxes and point out that customers, not businesses pay businesses taxes. I'm among those that accept to some extent that's certainly true. Then although not everyone pays federal income taxes, due to everyone directly or indirectly inducing purchases, don't we all pay some federal taxes?

Consider the corporate tax as effectively a federal flat rate sales tax we all pay.

While we retain federal taxation of individual's net incomes, we should also retain corporate taxes. Elimination of corporate taxation would hinder enforcement of income taxation upon individuals and would greater contribute to tax inequality.
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Old Yesterday, 08:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Political conservatives are more likely believe those whose incomes are insufficient to be subject to federal income tax, pay no federal taxes and contribute nothing to USA's economy.

They're also likely to be opposed to corporate taxes and point out that customers, not businesses pay businesses taxes. I'm among those that accept to some extent that's certainly true. Then although not everyone pays federal income taxes, due to everyone directly or indirectly inducing purchases, don't we all pay some federal taxes?

Consider the corporate tax as effectively a federal flat rate sales tax we all pay.

While we retain federal taxation of individual's net incomes, we should also retain corporate taxes. Elimination of corporate taxation would hinder enforcement of income taxation upon individuals and would greater contribute to tax inequality.
I would say it is more like a federal VAT than a federal sales tax, because the cost of the raw materials is tax-deductible.
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Old Yesterday, 10:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
I would say it. [i.e. corporate tax] is more like a federal VAT than a federal sales tax, because the cost of the raw materials is tax-deductible.
Ncole1, Vat's the superior species of sales tax administration methods.
The final purchaser pays the entire VAT. Intermediate purchasers' payments are usually refunded.
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Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM
 
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Corp tax rates aren’t flat so how would they be like a flat sales tax?
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Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Political conservatives are more likely believe those whose incomes are insufficient to be subject to federal income tax, pay no federal taxes and contribute nothing to USA's economy.
If that's the proposition behind your series of taxation threads, you can move on to a more interesting topic any time. The "47%" trope is a meaningless dog-whistle used by cons who fully know better but love to whoop up their base and rile up everyone else.
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Corp tax rates aren’t flat so how would they be like a flat sales tax?
LowExpectations, if we “consider the corporate tax as effectively a federal flat rate sales tax we all pay”, the unperceived costs of all aggregate corporate taxes we individually pay are effectively a “flat” tax rate.
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Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
LowExpectations, if we “consider the corporate tax as effectively a federal flat rate sales tax we all pay”, the unperceived costs of all aggregate corporate taxes we individually pay are effectively a “flat” tax rate.
It’s not flat so why attempt to say “effectively” flat? There’s no reason to make up new definitions.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
 
1,194 posts, read 614,249 times
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Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
It’s not flat so why attempt to say “effectively” flat? There’s no reason to make up new definitions.
LowExpectations, for the same reasons, I unsubscribed from the thread “Are flat taxes really regressive taxes?” and I also will not discuss from which end eggs should be opened.

Regarding "Gulliver's Travels" by Johnathan Swift; excerpted from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilliput_and_Blefuscu

"The novel further describes an intra-Lilliputian quarrel over the practice of breaking eggs. Traditionally, Lilliputians broke boiled eggs on the larger end; a few generations ago, an Emperor of Lilliput, the Present Emperor's great-grandfather, had decreed that all eggs be broken on the smaller end after his son cut himself breaking the egg on the larger end. The differences between Big-Endians (those who broke their eggs at the larger end) and Little-Endians had given rise to "six rebellions... wherein one Emperor lost his life, and another his crown". The Lilliputian religion says an egg should be broken on the convenient end, which is now interpreted by the Lilliputians as the smaller end. The Big-Endians gained favour in Blefuscu".
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Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM
 
901 posts, read 674,103 times
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Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
I would say it is more like a federal VAT than a federal sales tax, because the cost of the raw materials is tax-deductible.

I don't think the corporate income tax is similar to either. Companies that are not profitable pay zero federal corporate income taxes. Also, a previosuly profitable tax paying corporation in recession years can carry-back their losses and get taxes previously paid refunded. They can also also carry losses forward. Carrybacks and carry forwards are an important source of recession liquidity for many companies and blunts the impact of recessions in the US. The amount collected is very cyclical.

Sales tax and VAT taxes are always paid by everyone and the amount paid is not cyclical.
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Old Yesterday, 05:01 PM
 
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I've always been confused by the people who get angry about the "47%" statistic. You're either in the 53%, paying all payroll taxes, sales taxes, state taxes, plus federal tax, or you're in the 47%, paying only sales taxes and possibly payroll and state taxes. No matter how you look at it, the 47% pay much less, both as a percentage of their income and as an absolute number, than the 53%.


Using the logic from the OP, the 53% are still paying more than the 47% because they are buying more stuff. Any way you look at it, the 47% are a net burden on the 53%. Some people have a weird concept of "fairness".
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