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Old 01-20-2019, 05:45 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
27,570 posts, read 59,609,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
The technical term for that is "credit."
Nope. Not in that context.
The expectation was to pay off your purchases promptly
and commonly with discounts (eg 2% 10; net 30) for the trade accounts.
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Old 01-20-2019, 05:51 PM
 
12,494 posts, read 9,516,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Credit cards and living standards.

Evolution of us and our stuff.

We become aware of, then desiring, then intend obtaining, then are deprived if we have not obtained and retained stuff.

I've recognize many such items in my lifetime have evolved from toys of the wealthy that were generally less known and/or considered by USA's general population, to be coming more prevalent among the upper middle-income earners, to a general convenience, to almost necessities that lacking of which were cases of actual or near deprivation.
Prior to my birth, that evolutionary concept applied to indoor plumbing, public utilities, schools, museums, libraries, bridges, tunnels gramophones, crystal-radios, movie theaters, and refrigerators.

It seemed as almost every other Bronx family had a TV before my mother purchased our Emerson TV. I had been working “on the books” for more than a year before I was shamed and committed to pay monthly phone bills. I ordered a phone installed in our apartment because my uncle Harry wanted to be able to phone his sister.
I'm old enough to remember when no one knew of credit cards. “Diners' Club” was the first credit card that USA's general public became aware of. A financially elite segment of USA's population, an “expense account society” was being more generally heard and seen.

I applied for a credit card after I had contemplating the possible need a car later in the month. I inquired as to how much deposit I would require to rent a car and learned deposits were generally unacceptable. It makes sense; if a bank wouldn't extend you credit, why should a company trust you with their vehicle and the insurance risks?
“No credit” should not be treated the same as “bad credit”. However, we live in a society where consumer debt has become so normalized that not having a credit history is viewed as an anomaly. Yes, I know credit isn’t the same as debt. But by definition, credit is the ability to go into debt, meaning if you have obtained credit you have obtained permission to borrow, whether you have actually borrowed or not.

It is telling that even landlords and insurance companies often penalize a person for not requesting permisson to borrow money. It is inconceivable to such people that a modern person might simply have no need to be able to borrow.

And as to your rental car example, I find it incredibly bizarre that in 2010 I would be turned away from renting a $14,000 car despite having about $20,000 in my bank account which I could have given them permission to freeze the entire value of the car. But they wanted me to have a credit card instead. ( I ended up going to Zipcar).

Or as Dave Ramsey points out, some apartment complexes would not let him rent an apartment with no FICO score even though he could write a check and buy the complex.

The fact that having no desire to even get permission to go into debt is so incomprehensible to so many people is testament to how unsustainably addicted our society is to consumer debt.

Last edited by ncole1; 01-20-2019 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
5,255 posts, read 1,748,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Nope. Not in that context.
The expectation was to pay off your purchases promptly
and commonly with discounts (eg 2% 10; net 30) for the trade accounts.
So what do you call the practice of delivering goods with payment expected later? There are collateral terms such as "on account" and "charge" [to an account] and "terms," but I invite you to specify the financial term that applies if not "credit."

Even bar tabs are commonly referred to as "credit," as in "no."
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:03 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
27,570 posts, read 59,609,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So what do you call the ...
Don't be pedantic. Save that for the PhD
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:09 PM
 
12,494 posts, read 9,516,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
So what do you call the practice of delivering goods with payment expected later? There are collateral terms such as "on account" and "charge" [to an account] and "terms," but I invite you to specify the financial term that applies if not "credit."

Even bar tabs are commonly referred to as "credit," as in "no."
“Billing” and “invoices”. Or ( within academic circles) “credit”.
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:21 PM
 
1,034 posts, read 306,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Credit cards and living standards.

Evolution of us and our stuff.

We become aware of, then desiring, then intend obtaining, then are deprived if we have not obtained and retained stuff.

I've recognized many such items in my lifetime have evolved from toys of the wealthy that were generally less known and/or considered by USA's general population, to be coming more prevalent among the upper middle-income earners, to a general convenience, to almost necessities that lacking of which were cases of actual or near deprivation.

<snip>
I'm old enough to remember when no one knew of credit cards. “Diners' Club” was the first credit card that USA's general public became aware of.
I feel like the discussion has veered far from the point that the OP intended to make: that our list of "must-haves" has expanded considerably over the last couple of generations and that "buy now pay later", once unknown, is now a "normal" way to acquire things when you don't have the money because going without is not an option. My late husband, who was born in 1938, remembered when it was a bit shameful if you had to borrow money to buy a house.

Merchants and credit card companies certainly have driven home the point that not having the cash is not a barrier to The Good Life. Fly now, pay later. Easy Pay on QVC. Easy monthly payments in general. How often have you seen credit card commercials showing people sighing with relief and gratitude because they were able to get repair services when their car broke down in a remote area, or pay for emergency dental work? No, they're pictured with shopping bags full of Stuff. And yes, it gets a lot of people in big trouble. I was married to one of them. I have no problem with credit cards- I use mine liberally and pay them off in full every month, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority.
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Old 01-20-2019, 06:33 PM
 
12,494 posts, read 9,516,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
I feel like the discussion has veered far from the point that the OP intended to make: that our list of "must-haves" has expanded considerably over the last couple of generations and that "buy now pay later", once unknown, is now a "normal" way to acquire things when you don't have the money because going without is not an option. My late husband, who was born in 1938, remembered when it was a bit shameful if you had to borrow money to buy a house.

Merchants and credit card companies certainly have driven home the point that not having the cash is not a barrier to The Good Life. Fly now, pay later. Easy Pay on QVC. Easy monthly payments in general. How often have you seen credit card commercials showing people sighing with relief and gratitude because they were able to get repair services when their car broke down in a remote area, or pay for emergency dental work? No, they're pictured with shopping bags full of Stuff. And yes, it gets a lot of people in big trouble. I was married to one of them. I have no problem with credit cards- I use mine liberally and pay them off in full every month, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority.
A lot of people pay their cards off every month at first but don’t have much in the way of savings, which means that when a big unexpected expense comes up they end up going into CC debt to cover it.

The problem a lot of people have is not so much that they intend to live above their means, but it sneaks up on them. When times are good, they look at what is in the bank, minus the next month’s rent, and see that as spending money. If their income increases, they increase their spending. But inevitably, the day will come when their hours will be cut, or someone will be ill and out of work, or a car will break down, or the kids need braces, etc. and they will not be able to adjust fast enough. As long as someone views their money as spending money, they will never earn enough to make ends meet and still have money for an emergency.
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:06 PM
 
1,034 posts, read 306,279 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
As long as someone views their money as spending money, they will never earn enough to make ends meet and still have money for an emergency.
To my Ex, any $$ left on his credit card limit was spending money! (One of the reasons he's my Ex.)
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
15,804 posts, read 15,800,948 times
Reputation: 11698
If you don't want to carry cash, a CC may be your best, safest option.

I pay my daily bills/expenses with a CC and really like the safety and convenience. I have paid very, very little in interest and get a minimum of 1% cash-back on all purchases.
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:23 PM
 
920 posts, read 351,359 times
Reputation: 711
We are definitely headed towards a cashless country although bank transfers in this country are slightly less than those in other wealth countries. It seems almost inconvenient to pay with cash today and there are fewer reasons to have to pack some bills into your wallet.
We might not be moving as quickly as some tech companies and banks would like, but we are still headed in that cashless direction.
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