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Old Today, 11:31 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 270,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
We have a crises coming. Too many people will be old, and very few of them have anything saved to pay for when they can no longer work. My estimate is that less than half of people my age (mid 50s) have any significant savings or other retirement funding available. It may well be less than 10% have significant savings or other retirement funding sources. An awful lot of people I know have nothing at all avaualbel for retirement.

Social security cannot pay enough to keep them alive and there will not be enough people working compared to the numbers who are too old to work and have no money saved.

The government is not going to simply allow these people to starve, but the government simply does not have money to pay for their old age. There is one pocket of money available to resolve this crises. The 401K funds and other investments of those who saved for retirement. Given the option of letting the masses just starve to death, or simply killing them off, or finding a way to tax/take 401K and other retirement investments and redistribute it so the non-savers do not starve to death. It seems pretty obvious to me which the government will choose.

Sure the people who saved will still likely be better off than the non-savers, but the great hopes of deferred or non taxed income are not going to materialize. The government will have no other choice, it will re-distribute a portion of your 401K or other retirement funding.

People deny this is possible. It cannot happen (because they really really really do not want it to be possible, and therefore deem it impossible) however when asked where else the money will come from, they simply repeat that it is impossible. The law does not permit it (and of course laws never change). So apparently, their answer is the government will simply allow the other people to die.

If you think this is incorrect, then where do you think the money is going to come from to support all the masses of soon to be elderly people with no retirement whatsoever?
Its easy - on account of not being a loony.
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Old Today, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,795 posts, read 7,624,197 times
Reputation: 10998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
We have a crises coming. Too many people will be old, and very few of them have anything saved to pay for when they can no longer work. My estimate is that less than half of people my age (mid 50s) have any significant savings or other retirement funding available. It may well be less than 10% have significant savings or other retirement funding sources. An awful lot of people I know have nothing at all avaualbel for retirement.

Social security cannot pay enough to keep them alive and there will not be enough people working compared to the numbers who are too old to work and have no money saved.

The government is not going to simply allow these people to starve, but the government simply does not have money to pay for their old age. There is one pocket of money available to resolve this crises. The 401K funds and other investments of those who saved for retirement. Given the option of letting the masses just starve to death, or simply killing them off, or finding a way to tax/take 401K and other retirement investments and redistribute it so the non-savers do not starve to death. It seems pretty obvious to me which the government will choose.

Sure the people who saved will still likely be better off than the non-savers, but the great hopes of deferred or non taxed income are not going to materialize. The government will have no other choice, it will re-distribute a portion of your 401K or other retirement funding.

People deny this is possible. It cannot happen (because they really really really do not want it to be possible, and therefore deem it impossible) however when asked where else the money will come from, they simply repeat that it is impossible. The law does not permit it (and of course laws never change). So apparently, their answer is the government will simply allow the other people to die.

If you think this is incorrect, then where do you think the money is going to come from to support all the masses of soon to be elderly people with no retirement whatsoever?
Ramen noodles, social security, and roomates. Life is hard. People with no savings will have to bunk up with their kids or other old farts who were and are as stupid as they are. Thatís life. And the mere discussion of changing laws to nationalize private wealth would lead to the accounts being drained. So no issue there.
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Old Today, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,289 posts, read 4,492,003 times
Reputation: 17675
Why would they confiscate 401k's and not other bank accounts? It's all the individuals' money saved from their earnings. Why not just take their homes too? And their cars and RV's? Why? Because they can't just confiscate people's money like that. Little thing called the Constitution.

As for taxing it, I imagine that would be possible, but the folks that enact that tax wouldn't be in office very long!
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Old Today, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
5,289 posts, read 4,492,003 times
Reputation: 17675
As for what the people with no savings will do when they get old, they will do exactly what the people with no savings do today. Live on SS and the money they have, or continue to work to supplement their SS. Go to the Retirement Forum on this very website and read how lots of people on this forum do just that. It's not rocket science. There are also numerous programs available today that assist low income individuals, especially seniors. Need healthcare? Medicare and Medicaid. Need help with rent? Section 8. Need help with food? Food banks and SNAP. Need a cell phone? Get a free or $10 cell phone from the government. Have trouble paying the utilities? There are low income rates for gas and electric, as well as low income weatherization programs for your home. Need clothing? Thrift stores and church clothing closets. Need transportation? There are senior passes for almost no money through most mass transit agencies. The list goes on and on. But if you want to believe in some conspiracy of your own creation that the government is going to start stealing your bank accounts and investments, by all means go right ahead and keep that money under your mattress.

Last edited by TheShadow; Today at 01:05 PM..
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Old Today, 01:00 PM
 
Location: midvalley Oregon and Eastside seattle area
3,485 posts, read 1,588,557 times
Reputation: 2736
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
No , our retirement funds will not be taken , and it is not my job to solve the countries problems ..

A- I am not smart enough

B - they don’t pay me enough to think about it
I agree.
Our retirement income is 100% spent domestically, mostly on services and consumables and a very small amount on imported products.
Confiscation will kill the goose.
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Old Today, 01:06 PM
 
2,325 posts, read 555,039 times
Reputation: 2600
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
* Note *
*the government is not going to take the 401K funds

OK, feel better?

This will not happen (tho USA has plenty of problems) the SHIP is too big to fail (ezr, much more covert solutions which NO-ONE will realize / suspect until it Bites them! (done your 2018 taxes yet ))

So simple for US Gov to get what they want... they do not have to blatantly rob US! They have the printing presses and monetary policy!

As mentioned above...
Plan your strategy (based on current laws), then... adjust your strategy for future vultures (there will be plenty).

play the cards you are dealt.

Don't scream (That messes up the fun!)

It's all a game.

We are "All-IN!"

Play (plan) accordingly.

401ks have a purpose.. then... they do not!

ACT on that "before it is too late"
YIKES!!! Don't look up... the sky is falling (again).

(I have an advantage... one of my kid's has a great perspective (he works in a very high profile finance position))

He keeps a diary / script of a 'screen-play' about his employment & the 'sharks' / manipulators of the business.
The cast are all "Actors" and you learn to 'expect' how they will respond... from the bosses to the market makers... they all have a role / objective / director.

so...
It's all a game.

We are "All-IN!"

Play (plan) accordingly.


Retire Early, Retire often (more chances to 'recover' from 'The Game')
Retiring often will just look like a bunch of gaps in employment.

If you can't gain an edge in the game, GET UP FROM THE TABLE.

There are other tables.
There are other rooms, even floors.
There are other casinos.

There are other venues that don't involve taking a gamble. (see what I did there?)

If you aren't skilled in an area that allows you to save enough for retirement, and cannot afford to return to school, seek to switch to an employer (city, state) that participates in some sort of pension retirement system. Even in an entry-level clerk or public works employee, you will have a much more secure retirement than trying to save what's not coming in.
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Old Today, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,622 posts, read 5,627,678 times
Reputation: 10497
Quote:
Originally Posted by leastprime View Post
I agree.
Our retirement income is 100% spent domestically, mostly on services and consumables and a very small amount on imported products.
Confiscation will kill the goose.
OP really magnifies the scope of the problem. Sure, many don't have enough or anything saved for retirement. Yet, they often have equity in their home, and can either may expect to have no mortgage payment or otherwise sell and downsize. They may or may not inherit a small something from their parents. They may or may not have a small pension. Etc, etc...

The tax rate on withdrawals may certainly rise...But I really can't see it amounting to reappropriation of a 401K.
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Old Today, 01:28 PM
 
4,736 posts, read 2,445,823 times
Reputation: 4039
People can survive on a surprisingly low amount of money if forced to. I'm talking shared bedrooms, lots of cooked rice and veggies, and very little to no electronic devices.
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Old Today, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,658 posts, read 61,130,244 times
Reputation: 28668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
What's even less news is how misunderstanding SS leads to perpetual shrieking that it's about to implode/vanish/be capped/be taken away/blah blah blah. Fifty years on...
No one said that. (At least I didn't). What i said was it is unable to keep up with COL. It has already fallen way behind and it will only get worse as the support base gets smaller while the recipient base gets larger. You can deny that fact if you wish. You can also go around wearing blinders and looking only straight ahead if you wish.
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Old Today, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,658 posts, read 61,130,244 times
Reputation: 28668
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
OP really magnifies the scope of the problem. Sure, many don't have enough or anything saved for retirement. Yet, they often have equity in their home, and can either may expect to have no mortgage payment or otherwise sell and downsize. They may or may not inherit a small something from their parents. They may or may not have a small pension. Etc, etc...

The tax rate on withdrawals may certainly rise...But I really can't see it amounting to reappropriation of a 401K.
Look into your stats. very few have substantial equity in their homes. Many have none. foreclosures, and repeated refinancing helps to ensure minimal equity.

What we have is a perfect storm coming in about 10 - 15 years. 1. People do not have savings. 2. Most people do not have pensions; the few remaining pensions are underfunded. 3. Few people have substantial equity in their homes. 4. Many people have substantial debt that will not be retired before they retire. 5. Social Security is already struggling to remain meaningful. 6. for the first time ever, fewer people will be working than retired. This has never happened before in the history of modern society. 7. Costs, especially medical costs continue spiraling out of control. Growing numbers of people will need more and more medical care. It does not matter whether the government, insurance or the individual pays for it, it still has to be paid for. 9. Safety nets are begin eroded. Families are breaking up early in life, churches are fading away. Community service/charity is losing its priority in people's lives.

Roll everything together and have them all peak in the time approximate time and you have unprecedented problem. With five potential solutions identified so far: 1. tax the snot out of the people who are still working. 2. Tax the snot out of the one pocket of big money remaining available (401k and other investments, equity in houses etc), 3. Let people die. 4. Kill people off at a certain age. 5. Print more money.

Personally I think 1 is unlikely because they will already be heavily taxed for other reasons. 2 will definitely happen, possibly in concert with other solutions. 3 or 4 seem impossible to happen to us today, but we are not talking about today. Could it happen? I doubt it will, but it certainly could. We are doing things today tha only a few years ago people believed would never possibly be accepted. no way. Not possible. At least until they happened. 5. Will almost definitely happen. probably in concert with 2.
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