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Old 03-02-2019, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Suburban wasteland of NC
293 posts, read 170,274 times
Reputation: 266

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I don't know. Only about 6% of households making under 25k used to itemize, and only 21% of those making between 25 - 50k (https://taxfoundation.org/who-itemizes-deductions/). The median household income runs around 61k (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/medi...-of-61372.html), while among the 50k - 75k crowd only 41% itemized.

The numbers for who itemized are before the standard deduction doubled. Of course we lost the personal exemptions, however the CTC doubled. That's why I can't personally complain about the change. I'm not necessarily a fan either, but we came out well ahead.

Last edited by happygeek; 03-02-2019 at 05:26 PM..
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Old 03-02-2019, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
29,662 posts, read 12,590,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happygeek View Post
I don't know. Only about 6% of households making under 25k used to itemize, and only 21% of those making between 25 - 50k (https://taxfoundation.org/who-itemizes-deductions/). The median household income runs around 61k (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/medi...-of-61372.html), while among the 50k - 75k crowd only 41% itemized.

The numbers for who itemized are before the standard deduction doubled. Of course we lost the personal exemptions, however the CTC doubled. That's why I can't personally complain about the change. I'm not necessarily a fan either, but we came out well ahead.
It didn't actually double, for a married couple it was $13,000 and it went up to $24,000. But there is nothing that made up for the loss of personal exemptions unless you have children under 17 and got the child tax credit which not everyone even received in the full amount. If you have kids 17 or over in your home, or adult dependents you lost $4,050 for each one of them - and that $4,050 could be used on an itemized return.

We paid more, we expected to so it wasn't a big surprise. Many other people came out a few dollars ahead, but the real question is was the chump change people got from this tax bill really worth the 92 billion loss of corporate tax revenue, and the huge increase to the deficit? And at some point there will have to be spending cuts and increases to tax revenue. Who do you think Republicans will go after to lower the deficit, corporations or the rest of us?
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Old 03-02-2019, 07:30 PM
 
101 posts, read 76,978 times
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Deficit spending is nothing new. It has gone on for decades and numerous presidents with few exceptions. Obama didn't seem too concerned with it because he gave tax refunds to people who didn't even pay any taxes. As for the corporations getting tax breaks and increasing their bottom line, who do you think owns these corporations? Millions and millions of working Americans who have 401K retirement plans or invest in stocks or mutual funds own a large share of these corporations. So if AT&T or Amazon increases their value, that benefits millions of Americans to help them send their kids to college and have a decent retirement. And if these people have ample money, that bodes well for the blue collar workers to build homes, build cars, expand the utility grids, and all kinds of things.

Besides, as everyone should know, we don't have a revenue problem in the federal government. We have a SPENDING problem. Which party do you think is advocating the greatest increase in spending for the foreseeable future? Here's a hint, it's not the Republicans.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Suburban wasteland of NC
293 posts, read 170,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
It didn't actually double, for a married couple it was $13,000 and it went up to $24,000. But there is nothing that made up for the loss of personal exemptions unless you have children under 17 and got the child tax credit which not everyone even received in the full amount. If you have kids 17 or over in your home, or adult dependents you lost $4,050 for each one of them - and that $4,050 could be used on an itemized return.

We paid more, we expected to so it wasn't a big surprise. Many other people came out a few dollars ahead, but the real question is was the chump change people got from this tax bill really worth the 92 billion loss of corporate tax revenue, and the huge increase to the deficit? And at some point there will have to be spending cuts and increases to tax revenue. Who do you think Republicans will go after to lower the deficit, corporations or the rest of us?
Well sure, if you want to split hairs it went from $12,700 to $24,000 for a couple married filing jointly. If the couple had no kids then their 2017 personal exemption was 2x $4,050 so $8,100. So their total exemptions went from $20,800 to $24,000. This is assuming no kids. The old CTC was $1,00 per kid, now it's $2,000. The old refundable amount was $1,000, now it's $1,400. Sure the CTC has phaseouts, but you have to be 'filthy rich' before that applies to you (https://www.fool.com/taxes/2018/01/0...u-need-to.aspx).

Again, we are coming out considerably ahead under this law with an AGI of ~40k.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
29,662 posts, read 12,590,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happygeek View Post
Well sure, if you want to split hairs it went from $12,700 to $24,000 for a couple married filing jointly. If the couple had no kids then their 2017 personal exemption was 2x $4,050 so $8,100. So their total exemptions went from $20,800 to $24,000. This is assuming no kids. The old CTC was $1,00 per kid, now it's $2,000. The old refundable amount was $1,000, now it's $1,400. Sure the CTC has phaseouts, but you have to be 'filthy rich' before that applies to you (https://www.fool.com/taxes/2018/01/0...u-need-to.aspx).

Again, we are coming out considerably ahead under this law with an AGI of ~40k.
But the personal exemption could be used if you itemize, that's not possible anymore. If the tax bill benefits you then that's great but I still think it's a lousy bill and is just a big wet kiss to the Kochs. They wrote the bill they wanted, they paid the right politicians to vote for it and they got it, I hope you find that reassuring.

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/arti...r-12516024.php
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Suburban wasteland of NC
293 posts, read 170,274 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by happygeek View Post
I don't know. Only about 6% of households making under 25k used to itemize, and only 21% of those making between 25 - 50k (https://taxfoundation.org/who-itemizes-deductions/). The median household income runs around 61k (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/medi...-of-61372.html), while among the 50k - 75k crowd only 41% itemized.
Very few lower income people were itemizing before the tax change. Then you had deductions that were used primarily by the rich which were limited by the tax change.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...he-rich-end-it
https://slate.com/business/2018/04/i...ion-to-go.html
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4...althy-analysis
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:24 AM
 
4,084 posts, read 2,396,944 times
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Up until my wife became a realtor we usually got a couple thousand back from fed and state combined. Then, with my military retirement, full time job and her selling homes, we ended up paying 15 for the last two years. Thats not bad, as we save 30% of her income as she is a 1099.
But this year, we have no clue. We just dropped off everything with CPA. Hopefully new laws will benefit her income, and will adjust the taxes needed to be paid.
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
13,848 posts, read 7,598,297 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
The wealthy are laughing all the way to the bank and the "little people" are grousing about smaller tax refunds. Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

"The national debt surpassed $22 trillion for the first time on Tuesday (Feb 12), a milestone that experts warned is further proof the country is on an unsustainable financial path that could jeopardize the economic security of every American."

"The U.S. economy's estimated growth rate in the fourth quarter was slashed to 1.5% from 2.7% by the Atlanta Federal Reserve after declines in retail sales and inventories. "

Trump's tax cuts are unsustainable.
You get it. There was a reason the tax cuts were made permanent for the higher income corporations and not for the middle class. It's part of a re-election strategy. The Democrats will raise your taxes. Yes the middle class gets peanuts. Thank you sir may I have another? The rich get huge breaks. Wouldn't you love to see how Trump has benefited from the new tax code? Do you think he cares about working people or do you think he cares about lining his pocket?

We chose the perfect time to sell one of our income properties last year. We had a windfall profit of around 150k. We had to pay the income tax on it before the end of 2018 or face penalties, so the new tax code helped us. We showed a loss on that property when we filed this year, and our return was less than last years return. We are retired and have one pension. I have not collected social security yet. Our income was less than it was last year except for the windfall profit. It was a complicated tax year for us, but we were helped by the new tax law in one respect. We were really rich on paper with that windfall profit for the last quarter of 2018.

Our accountant said that the lower middle class will be helped by the new tax code, but it's peanuts compared to what the rich will get. She said that the upper middle class will be hurt by the new tax code. So yes the middle class were both helped and hurt depending on your tax bracket. The rich were all definitely helped. Was it fair? I don't think so.
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:41 PM
 
440 posts, read 103,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
This is kind of nonsense. Let's say that "working class" has a $50K AGI cutoff. $25/hour. Filing single and taking the standard deduction, that's $4,375 in Federal income taxes. Your effective tax rate is less than 9%. Married, an AGI of $100K has the same numbers. You're still in the 12% bracket. The working class hardly pays any Federal income tax at all.
The federal tax can be considered an entry fee to play so the feds can get into everyone's pockets. We are paying taxes three and four times on products. There are taxes on the entire manufacturing process and the commodities used in the manufacturing process. Then the user pays a tax to have the pleasure of buying it.
That is where the real money is.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:28 PM
 
4,084 posts, read 2,396,944 times
Reputation: 1892
People are forgetting SS tax, Medicare Tax etc.. You may be in a 12% Fed, plus 7% in state for example.
Then like someone else posted, you pay taxes on pretty much every item you buy.
And if you are a 1099 person, taxes are very difficult to figure out. for a newbie.
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