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Old 03-09-2019, 01:02 PM
 
18,251 posts, read 12,959,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
2.2% saving rates are offered by a few obscure online banking establishments.
Itís not obscure by any means. Marcus.com is a Goldman Sachs 2.25% cit bank 2.45% American Express savings 2.1% ally bank 2.2% capitol one savings 2%. All big names 2% or more fdic insured

Quote:
, Do you have an account with them?
Yes

Quote:
You make 2.2% saving rate to sound as a norm. It is not. Less obscure online banks offer saving rates at (well) below 2%. Generally you have to open a money market account to have 2%+.
Itís absolutely attainable easily and itís not necessary to open a money market account


Quote:
Ok, 2% compounded over 8 years gives you whopping 17% return. So my statement remains, online banks or local ones, neither protects your money against inflation.
Is 17% better or worse than the near zero you were complaining about?


Quote:
As for investments, that's so what if. What if you make the wrong bets? Most proles cannot afford online bets anyhow and go with institutionalized investment schemes like 401k. As I said my guinea fidelity 401k fund just sits there, for the past 1.5 years I've lost just $300. Reminder we live in the boom times. A miracle is needed at this point for that 401k to grow 150% by 2027 in non inflation adjusted dollars.

My lumber pile investment 7 years ago beat banks, beat 401ks, it even beat your savvy investors that raked 150% returns in the past 7 years.

Itís far from a so what scenario investing in a low cost etf with zero transaction cost is easy and itís not a matter of making wrong bets, one investment 500 companies is about as easy as it gets what I am seeing here is just excuses from you in an attempt to ignore reality
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:14 PM
 
25,027 posts, read 32,067,412 times
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I just looked at my 3 separate accounts in Fidelity. All have had no contributions made in many many years...a little shifting around here and there, but mostly untouched.

One account is 7% higher than Sept 2017.
2nd one is at the same as in Sept 2017.
3rd one is 15% higher than Sept 2017.

All of these accounts dropped off the cliff last quarter, and are making a slow climb back up. I don't think you can look at the whole of 2018 as any indicator of the value of investing.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:59 PM
 
4,971 posts, read 4,957,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Itís not obscure by any means. Marcus.com is a Goldman Sachs 2.25% cit bank 2.45% American Express savings 2.1% ally bank 2.2% capitol one savings 2%. All big names 2% or more fdic insured



Yes



Itís absolutely attainable easily and itís not necessary to open a money market account




Is 17% better or worse than the near zero you were complaining about?





Itís far from a so what scenario investing in a low cost etf with zero transaction cost is easy and itís not a matter of making wrong bets, one investment 500 companies is about as easy as it gets what I am seeing here is just excuses from you in an attempt to ignore reality
I happen to have a money market account with Capital 1, it pays 2%, I better check on their saving account rates. Is 17% over 8 years better than nothing, that's a philosophical question, on one side it's better, on the other if you cannot catch up with inflation the end result is the same. Just another random number, oil change, the same car, the same oil, the same chain. March 2015 - $27, March 2019 - $40. Healthy 48% growth for Walmart in 4 years. 17% over 8 years for me, if lucky. Something has to give. It is not just oil change, or lumber, or tools, it is comprehensive run away of prices. And I somewhat doubt that corporate brass enjoying run away incomes frequent Walmart auto stores.
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:14 PM
 
4,971 posts, read 4,957,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Itís far from a so what scenario investing in a low cost etf with zero transaction cost is easy and itís not a matter of making wrong bets, one investment 500 companies is about as easy as it gets what I am seeing here is just excuses from you in an attempt to ignore reality
I let professionals to run S&P index funds on my behalf. Investing is easy. Getting returns on investments matching real inflation rates is hard. S&P index funds do not cut it at this point. And it is not even a point. As a prole I can invest only a small % of my income and I can't live off the returns. So even assuming stellar performance of index funds a good chunk of population is still screwed given labor-capital dynamics in this country. But at this point it's all around squeeze.
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:26 PM
 
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equities are long term investments ... can you find us any 25-30 year period the s&p did not beat inflation by a pretty good distance ? and yes even at 65 you still have money you won't be eating with for 20-30 years .
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:43 PM
 
18,251 posts, read 12,959,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I happen to have a money market account with Capital 1, it pays 2%, I better check on their saving account rates. Is 17% over 8 years better than nothing, that's a philosophical question, on one side it's better, on the other if you cannot catch up with inflation the end result is the same.
Itís not a philosophical question. The answer is undoubtedly yes 2%+ annually is better than near zero without questions


Quote:
Just another random number, oil change, the same car, the same oil, the same chain. March 2015 - $27, March 2019 - $40. Healthy 48% growth for Walmart in 4 years. 17% over 8 years for me, if lucky. Something has to give. It is not just oil change, or lumber, or tools, it is comprehensive run away of prices. And I somewhat doubt that corporate brass enjoying run away incomes frequent Walmart auto stores.
And the s&p 500 is up 44% over that time
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:45 PM
 
18,251 posts, read 12,959,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I let professionals to run S&P index funds on my behalf. Investing is easy. Getting returns on investments matching real inflation rates is hard. S&P index funds do not cut it at this point. And it is not even a point. As a prole I can invest only a small % of my income and I can't live off the returns. So even assuming stellar performance of index funds a good chunk of population is still screwed given labor-capital dynamics in this country. But at this point it's all around squeeze.
Getting returns from the s&p 500 that exceed inflation is ridiculously simple over time. And if you have relatively little income to investing in lumber or beanie babies wouldnít make a difference.
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Old 03-09-2019, 03:00 PM
 
1,049 posts, read 455,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
As for investments, that's so what if. What if you make the wrong bets? Most proles cannot afford online bets anyhow and go with institutionalized investment schemes like 401k. As I said my guinea fidelity 401k fund just sits there, for the past 1.5 years I've lost just $300. Reminder we live in the boom times. A miracle is needed at this point for that 401k to grow 150% by 2027 in non inflation adjusted dollars.
Your mythical proles can open a zero cost account with Robin Hood and buy SPY or VOO or VTI to get a diversified investment that apparently is much better than the managed portion of your Fidelity 401k.
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Old 03-09-2019, 03:02 PM
 
18,251 posts, read 12,959,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
Your mythical proles can open a zero cost account with Robin Hood and buy SPY or VOO or VTI to get a diversified investment that apparently is much better than the managed portion of your Fidelity 401k.
I’m pretty sure you can buy voo free at vanguard and possibly fidelity as well, I know fidelity has a list of ETFs that are transaction cost free
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Old 03-09-2019, 03:07 PM
 
68,351 posts, read 69,144,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowexpectations View Post
Iím pretty sure you can buy voo free and vanguard and possibly fidelity as well, I know fidelity has a list of ETFs that are transaction cost free
You can buy I share stuff free at fidelity like Itot ..

I recently bought Iau. Itot shy and tlt all free .

You can open a chase uinvest account and get pretty much any etf or stock free
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