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Old 03-10-2019, 12:41 PM
 
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Both countries have high taxes, but they both have good schools, decent health care for most people.

Sweden is often called a socialist country but Japan rarely is. We think of Japan in terms of all the TVs, neon lights and cars. Wouldn't they both be called socialist because of how big their governments are?

There was a thread a few years ago about how socialism and communism are the same thing. But Sweden is called socialist and never communist.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:53 PM
Status: "No saccharine. No treacle." (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
27,831 posts, read 60,206,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
Is Japan like Sweden?
A cohesive culture and population with an almost universal outlook? Close to.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:07 PM
 
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Sweden like other Nordic countries used to have homogenous population like Japan still has. Sweden however opened its borders mainly for various refugees from Middle East and Africa past 15 years and now has 17% of total population foreign born. Japan is still very Japanese, Sweden not so much.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karpo1 View Post
Sweden like other Nordic countries used to have homogenous population like Japan still has. Sweden however opened its borders mainly for various refugees from Middle East and Africa past 15 years and now has 17% of total population foreign born. Japan is still very Japanese, Sweden not so much.
Exactly. Japan gets that a nation is a matter of borders, culture, language, heritage. It makes no difference to the Japanese if Japan ceases to exists through population decline because immigration would also lead to eradication of Japan also. A very proud people.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertpasa View Post
Both countries have high taxes, but they both have good schools, decent health care for most people.

Sweden is often called a socialist country but Japan rarely is. We think of Japan in terms of all the TVs, neon lights and cars. Wouldn't they both be called socialist because of how big their governments are?

There was a thread a few years ago about how socialism and communism are the same thing. But Sweden is called socialist and never communist.
To the best of my knowledge, Japan's levels of taxation aren't anywhere near Sweden's.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:47 AM
 
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There's no Japanese bikini team. They're not at all similar.


Sweden isn't socialist. It's a Social Democracy. They are very different.


Japan has 26% of their population age 65+. Sweden is about 20%. The United States is about 15%. Think about the tax structure it requires to prop up that many elderly. The United States will get there. If it wasn't for immigration, we'd already have the problem.


Whenever this comes up, I always write that it's much easier in countries with a homogeneous population to vote for generous social services. Japan is as homogeneous a place as you'll find on the planet. They just suck it up an pay the taxes. The United States isn't like that. In big chunks of the country, social policy is kept to the absolute minimum so "lazy" black people, brown people, and white trash don't "unfairly" get access to the safety net. It's basic tribal human nature.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:52 AM
 
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Last I checked both Japan and Sweden had privately owned businesses. In fact, the vast majority of the businesses in both countries are privately owned.

Ergo, NOT SOCIALIST.

Socialism = collective ownership of the means of production.

Communism = collective ownership of everything.

Both Sweden and Japan are more extensive welfare states than the USA, which is also a welfare state.

Welfare State = taxes are used to pay for social services beyond the minimum of national defense, legislation, or establishing the currency.

It does no good to use inflammatory rhetoric (even when the intent is not to inflame) if one hopes to have meaningful discussions. Ever since the Cold War the terms "socialist" and "communist" have been mis-applied in order to create fear and loathing.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:33 AM
 
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Sweden, Denmark, Japan, etc. are not socialist countries no matter who tries to imply they are. They are capitalistic democracies with very deep and wide social safety nets. The primary difference between those countries and the U.S. is that we don't have the higher taxation required to expand our own social safety nets. If the average tax was around 50%, then we could also afford the programs offered by Nordic countries.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:58 AM
 
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Sweden is beginning to privatize more of its government controlled culture now that the economy has eroded since the 1970's thanks to the increasing control of the government. It should help their economy to grow and increase its GDP.

A relatively recent editorial on the subject from Forbes may enlighten a few.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey.../#267a741e74ad
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:36 AM
 
67 posts, read 24,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numsgal View Post
If the average tax was around 50%, then we could also afford the programs offered by Nordic countries.
Having lived my first 30 years in Nordic country, 50% is not enough.
I had good job as an engineer paid ~$5000/month, that was about double of average pay across all jobs.
My income tax was 42% flat from each euro paid. VAT is like sales tax, it was 24% charged from all goods including groceries (more recently this was dropped to 12%). Gasoline was ~8$ per gallon, cars were taxed based on CO2 level of engine, average tax on 2.0l engine 100% of the car value.

So actual tax rate was >75% for me. Today happier with 2.5x pay and income tax of 12% in TX. Sure need to pay medical insurance 5k per annum and need to save higher education for kids and 7k property taxes, but that 50% difference in taxation level makes life easy.

Nordics are great for low paid non skilled person, everyone else is taxed to death.
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