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Old 09-18-2008, 10:40 PM
2 posts, read 3,332 times
Reputation: 15


Originally Posted by tony23 View Post
Been there. What matters is how you respond. Yes, it can take years. Do you keep fighting or do you give up and whine?

I'm coming out the other end of that tunnel now. I'm buying a house, the first time it's been realistic since I filed bankruptcy to forestall foreclosure. My credit isn't great, but it's a lot better. And I've finally gotten a good job - after years of trying to make it on way too little. And I'm better off now than I have EVER been in my life.

Which choice do you think I made?

I agree with you...it is frustrating....but you have to keep plugging away....to me it is the only choice I have, giving up is NOT an option .... I wake up with a heavy burden on my chest every day....I look at my kids and know I have to keep going. I am so glad to hear you made it out of this mess and hope for you that your "new beginning" leads you to a bright debt free future!!
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:42 PM
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,917,152 times
Reputation: 24558
I am working toward a debt free future. I just hope I live long enough to achieve it.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:50 PM
48,519 posts, read 81,585,630 times
Reputation: 17990
My parents were solid middle class. I also am middle class with no debt besides one vehicle of ours vehicles not paid for. My parents never lived to the standard I do now.I wopuld say that when I was growing up the miidle class lived much like the lower middle class now days but actaully saved more.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:51 PM
16,759 posts, read 19,065,302 times
Reputation: 6849
Why did you revive a really, really old thread that started earlier last year?
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:01 PM
48,519 posts, read 81,585,630 times
Reputation: 17990
Well since government can never be the sole owner of all means of production ;no state can really be socialist fully.That also means the state would have full possession of the output of that production to distribute as they see fit. Looking at the sates it seems that the one that are less socialist and encourage private business have been the big gainers in the last decades.Many of the States that control More of the GDP by taxing and fees are in dire straits ;especially now.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:36 PM
Location: Ohio
3 posts, read 1,804 times
Reputation: 10
Originally Posted by chambana View Post
Less taxes? hmmm... Our govt has over 9 trillion of debt, issues bonds to pay interest only, has HUGE social security/medicare bills on the horizon...Less taxes aren't the answer.

FINALLY paying our debt down IS part of the answer

Just cut all Government services and subsidies paid out after 1910 and it will be paid off in less than a year.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:03 AM
4,832 posts, read 4,853,204 times
Reputation: 6177
I cannot stop being amazed how effective is the language of "personal responsibility", it maintains social control as no direct repression can. The truth is that owning elites started fighting post Great Depression/WWII "redistribution of wealth" immediately. Mass middle class is AGAINST everything that capitalism stands for. There cannot be anything resembling mass middle class under pure capitalism conditions. There are no known examples of such a travesty.

Since 1970th virtually ALL fruits of productivity growth were appropriated by the top 20% (or less).
So, productivity doubled or tripled, amount of stuff to consume doubled or tripled, price of the essentials doubled or tripled, but inflation adjusted income of bottom 80% remained about the same (or fell). You don't see a problem here? It's classic crisis of Capitalism according to Marx, capitalist undermined their customer base while relentlessly squeezing sweat from the lower classes. Luckily, 20th century capitalists (unlike their predecessors) found the way to lend expropriated wages back to the proles so they could pay for basics and to consume all that extra McStuff made in China. The reckoning day was postponed for 30 years, debt started piling up. And it's not only consumer debt, capitalists refuse to maintain Imperial Government, Imperial Military, Imperial State crucial for their "success". Instead, they would rather build a pyramid of governmental debt knowing very well that the reckoning day is coming. BTW, 2008 crash is just a sneeze, it didn't resolve anything. Another one, bigger one is coming.

It's pure math, series described by the formula (1+i%)^Y (compound interest formula) do NOT converge, no matter how small i% the series grow to infinity. So we have financial pyramid capable of infinite growth in the finite and limited world. This delusional foundation block of capitalist economies necessitate periodic busts and global wars to match delusion to reality once in a while. Luckily, there is nothing that personal responsibility of the lower classes cannot resolve.

Last edited by RememberMee; 02-26-2012 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:04 AM
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,257 posts, read 4,939,681 times
Reputation: 3029
Originally Posted by Simple Living View Post
I have been telling people for the last year to stop buying "stuff"; to pay off their debt as quickly as possible because bad times are coming and the only way to make it through will be to be debt-free. At least consumer debt-free. Get those credit cards paid off as quickly as possible and cancel all of those monthly subscriptions that nickel and dime you to death... magazines, movie channels, cable, eating out, going to movies, buying coffees and pastries, NetFlix, gym memberships, extra cell phone charges like internet, games, texting, etc., Stop buying video games, DVDs, CDs, books, etc., (Use the library, they're free to use.) At least narrow them down. Cancel cable altogether and just use NetFlix, if giving up television is too hard for you.

Most Americans won't do this because we don't want to go without. We don't want to be deprived and we've fallen for the media and advertising hype: "Make YOUR life better! YOU deserve the best!" We're addicted to stuff, convenience and entertainment. Microwaves aren't fast enough for us now. We're addicted to instant gratification and sacrificing these comforts is "insane" to us.

It's possible to live simply and get your debts paid off, though. I figured I'd rather "suffer" for a short time and be free from debt for the rest of my life. Then, during the hard times, it won't be so hard. I've put my plan into action and, by the end of the year, I'll be debt free and have some savings.

No, that doesn't make me any better than anyone else. I just wish people would take control of their debt and be drastic about it, instead of babying it so they don't have to hurt, suffer or go without.
You do realize that gym memberships, restaurants, cable telivision, etc., are where a lot of the service jobs left in this service economy are located? If everyone stopped participating in these services there would be many unintended consequences. Things don't happen in a vacuum. Your suggestions will work for a few people but if everyone participated in that type of austerity it would create new problems.

The key is not living beyond your means, being responsible with debt, saving for the future, and maintaining balance.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:37 AM
Location: Atlantis
3,019 posts, read 3,150,656 times
Reputation: 8789
Originally Posted by One Thousand View Post
One of the many great things about the U.S. is that the country is structured so that if enough individuals within a state sees it fit, you can implement more socialism to experiment with the practical potential of the applied theory against 49 other states.

Yeah, cool.

Then if a few states have free state health care, someone can just live in another more "capitalist" state and never pay for medical insurance until they are like 54 years old and have cancer - then move to one of the more socialist states.

At that rate, there might even be entire "socialist" states that people go to who spent 30 years of their working lives never saving money for retirement and then move to a state like that when they turn 60.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:21 AM
8,266 posts, read 10,442,175 times
Reputation: 4754
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Since 1970th virtually ALL fruits of productivity growth were appropriated by the top 20% (or less).
You typing this post from your cell phone or affordable computer?
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