Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-26-2019, 09:19 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,675,254 times
Reputation: 43653

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Read my post again. The armchair economists have been saying and posting for years
that raising the minimum wage will also raise the overall unemployment rate.
I'm sure there are some people who have stated things so poorly...
but if you're gonna blame them for more than "internet overstating" you don't have much to go on.
Certainly not without quotes in context.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-26-2019, 04:50 PM
 
19,591 posts, read 17,879,264 times
Reputation: 17120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Read my post again. The armchair economists have been saying and posting for years that raising the minimum wage will also raise the overall unemployment rate. The chart I posted disproves their thesis. They were just as wrong as the people who said in 2012 that California was going to be the next Greece.

If you are suggesting that California's unemployment drop was composed of increased hiring at high-paying jobs at large enough numbers to offset losses of minimum wage jobs, I'm not aware of any evidence or facts to support that.
Proofread and then repost. Your first point is logically flawed vis a vis your earlier arguments.

Regarding your second point I'd ask you to spend an hour looking over CA's employment metrics across the wages over the last few years. If you can't find high confidence data I'll send/link you some.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2019, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 1,996,973 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Read my post again. The armchair economists have been saying and posting for years that raising the minimum wage will also raise the overall unemployment rate. The chart I posted disproves their thesis. They were just as wrong as the people who said in 2012 that California was going to be the next Greece.

If you are suggesting that California's unemployment drop was composed of increased hiring at high-paying jobs at large enough numbers to offset losses of minimum wage jobs, I'm not aware of any evidence or facts to support that.
You can't prove your point with a chart of employment numbers. You don't know what the unemployment rate would have been with a different min. wage law.

Wage rates represent the price of labor, so min. wage laws (as generally implemented in the US) are a price control. Economists agree overwhelmingly that price controls are a bad idea:
https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/PriceControls.html

Quote:
... economists are generally opposed to [price controls], except perhaps for very brief periods during emergencies. In a survey published in 1992, 76.3 percent of the economists surveyed agreed with the statement: “A ceiling on rents reduces the quality and quantity of housing available.” ... only 6.5 percent disagreed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2019, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 1,996,973 times
Reputation: 2167
The minimum wage as generally implemented is a sham and a political scam. If done honestly, it would be implemented same as agriculture price controls, where the price is allowed to float according to the market, but if it drops below a certain minimum level, gov't makes up the difference with a subsidy paid to farmers.

Any high level politician has sufficient advice from staff who have studied econ to know this. Thus, any high-level (say US congress critters and up) who promotes the minimum wage is flat LYING TO YOU.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2019, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 1,996,973 times
Reputation: 2167
Sweden has NO minimum wage, but most workers are unionized. With a union, workers have a team of experienced negotiators to get them reasonable wages in relation to market conditions.

The US minimum wage laws are a sham and a shame.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2019, 04:41 AM
 
18,512 posts, read 15,494,002 times
Reputation: 16193
The real problem is that we have a totally outdated school system that spends 12 years teaching people to be production-line factory workers, but very few skills relevant in the modern world, nor even a modern way of doing things. Then we tell them they need four more years of school to improve their skills, but it was us that forced them to waste the first 12 years. They deserve better than this because their situation is involuntary (since people under 18 do not have the legal right to choose their own schooling).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-02-2019, 09:36 AM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,607,574 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
The real problem is that we have a totally outdated school system that spends 12 years teaching people to be production-line factory workers, but very few skills relevant in the modern world, nor even a modern way of doing things. Then we tell them they need four more years of school to improve their skills, but it was us that forced them to waste the first 12 years. They deserve better than this because their situation is involuntary (since people under 18 do not have the legal right to choose their own schooling).
Absolutely spot on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2019, 12:10 PM
 
17,876 posts, read 15,820,080 times
Reputation: 11656
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliRestoration View Post
My close friend Patrick Bet-David finished his informational video on the myths of the minimum wage on the economy.

For anyone confused on why the minimum wage actually hurts the economy, please watch this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHkLDX8uoCI
Ok so lets not have a minimum wage, and the handful of large corporations that control much of just of about every sector, and actually employ most people (outside of public sector) can just pay everyone $0.01/hour.

Because you know all those who want more can just go run to the plethora of smaller/independent shops out there who are more than willing and can easily afford to pay people much much more. Heck there is so much competition for laborers out there, that the largest Wall Street Corporations will have no choice but to pay everyone a fair wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by K1500 View Post
A low minimum wage is actually a good thing, because it opens jobs for "entry level people" like teenagers seeking their first jobs. Raising the minimum wage to $15-$20 per hour actually eliminates those jobs.

In today's economy, nobody who is a worth hiring is making anywhere near minimum wage. Most make at least double that.

Our economy will pay you what you are worth, not what you think you are worth.
Minimum wage is not suppose to open up any kind of employment. And no employment is suppose to open up simply because of minimum wage. Jobs dont exist simply because someone can afford to give away money. They exist because someone needs someone to do that job he/she cannot do himself.

And LOL at your last sentence. So those fast food chains/dollar stores just hired these unworthy people simply because they can?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sas318 View Post
What irks me is the usual: consumer products will be more expensive and small businesses will lay employees off because they can't afford a higher minimum wage.

Besides, $20/hour is about $41,600 a year, which is the same as some full time jobs in some industries!! I might as well get a minimum wage job then. Ha ha.
In lieu of everything going up, if a business cannot also afford to pay their workers more, they dont deserve to be in business.

If you ever get fired from your current job, or your company folds, and you need a job real fast, will you not be thankful, and grateful, the minimum is $20? (if that is the case)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2019, 12:26 PM
 
17,876 posts, read 15,820,080 times
Reputation: 11656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javawood View Post
This is something I've always thought about. If minimum is high, I might as well take some easy job on my off days when I have nothing else to do and pad my salary by another $xx,000. It's $13.50 in NYC now, $15 if you have more than 10 employees (I think). Maybe I'll work front desk where my girlfriend works so I can do my Japanese and masters homework while I work, like back in high school and college. LOL!
Is that actually a bad thing? Is that a reason we should or should not increase minimum wage, or even have a minimum wage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I do have to take issue with this comment. If "no one" wanted to do minimum wage jobs, they would pay better. That's just basic supply and demand economics. The problem we have in America is that we have way too many people who are only qualified for minimum wage type work. That's one of many reasons why wages have stagnated over the last 40 years.
Actually its the other way around. We only have so many high paying jobs to go around. How many managers can Amazon have? How many CEOs can Sprint have? How many directors can Marvel Cinematic Universe have?

If everyone is a doctor, no one will ever need a doctor ever again. If 1 out of 4 persons is an engineer, engineers will be the minimum wage workers or very close to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
To those who DON'T think minimum wage worker's deserve respect...at least one of you mentioned college students working through college...dont you think college students deserve respect?
Or is it only the full degreed ones who deserve respect?

To another...if you dont think they deserve respect...remember that the next sit down trip to a filthy public restroom. Because those who work hard against people who pee and poop anywhere, or who stop up toilets, keep it nice and clean for you.

But, hey if you want dirty public toilets, then we can just do away with minimum wage janitors.

Also, y'all with your high 6 figure incomes who get respect...respect is earned, if you dont want to be respected, fine. But you need to respect the minimum wage earner as much as you expect them to respect you.

And lastky for a bible thumping response.... Jesus said " as you have done to these, the least of my brothers, so have you done unto me ". So if you are Christian and want to s**t on Christ , fine with me then

ALL workers, regardless of job deserve respect....especially if they do the jobs no one wants to do!

It has less to do with respect, and more to do with maintaining an orderly, and civil society. You cannot have this if there exists a perpetual class of people that are constantly getting hammered and hammered with cost of living, and not seeing any relief no matter how big or small. A slight uptick in minimum is just a small relief. Its not a living wage, but a little more spending money. They can go out for steak once in a while. If you are a business that cannot afford this, then you do not deserve to be in business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2019, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Henderson, NV
7,087 posts, read 8,606,297 times
Reputation: 9978
I have an opinion, but all I can say is honestly I’m happy that we don’t deal with anything close to the minimum ever in my business. I’m a small business though so I’m not beholden to stock holders or something. My employees and my contractors come first. We turn down work if it’s below our package pricing and in our pricing videographers are paid at least $75/hour and up to $100/hour for their work - they bring with them a lot of gear, have to pay their own health insurance and business costs too, they need to make that to make it whatsoever worthwhile. I’ve done their jobs too and I know how it is on that side. We like long term relationships and I fight for my guys to get paid well.

My two employees are above minimum wage, though my top employee makes a lower wage because she’s commission based and the idea is for her to share in the company’s success. I set it up from the start so there’s no way for me to be “rich” on profits without her getting a fair share. If I made $1 million in a year, she’d make $400,000, and I felt that was fair because I risked all of the money, came up with the company, and own it completely, but I didn’t want some situation where I was making a million bucks and my top sales lady was making $100,000. That just doesn’t feel right to me and doesn’t encourage loyalty at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top