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Old 04-29-2019, 08:02 AM
 
1,111 posts, read 625,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkeydance View Post
our definition:
1. pays taxes. all of them. federal, state, etc.
2. is an actual legal citizen and can prove it.
3. pay for work pays the bills.
What does being a "legal citizen" have to do with it? Permanent residents can't be counted among the working class?
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:12 AM
 
13,318 posts, read 7,014,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Huh? What would you call Black or Latino people who do blue collar jobs and are not college educated?
Err... Working Class?
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:47 AM
 
5,617 posts, read 8,605,995 times
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I'm also boggled by the notion that blacks and Latinos can't be working class. Does this person live in a bubble. Are they a bigot who buys the stereotype of the welfare class?

Also disagree that needing to work makes one working class. The vast majority of Americans depend on their jobs. Including middle and UMC class.

Working class people aren't necessarily poor and shiftless or in dead end jobs. They can be prosperous business owners and skilled tradespeople. I expect it has more to do with education, pastimes, and priorities. There's also no clear boundaries. An office manager or teacher might consider themselves working or middle class depending on their spouse and upbringing.

I'll say class can have more to do with the parents and upbringing than what someone does for a living. Consider the UMC chicken farmers and back to the land movement.
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Old 04-29-2019, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
6,572 posts, read 2,304,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
I'm also boggled by the notion that blacks and Latinos can't be working class.
There is some truth to the perception, here. Whatever you might think the final, formal, classroom definition of the term is (hint: there ain't no setch animal), the general use of "working class" means families that work for a living (aren't on any form of 'welfare,' that is), have thin economic resources (but aren't 'poor')... and white. You know, the major populations of Rust Belt and farming country cities.

Most who have used the term very specifically put 'minorities' in other categories, except for the handful that are upright and 'spectable enough to be considered along with the white folks.

Yes, it always has been a fairly racially-polarized, if not racist term. It really means 'white folks too poor to think much about' in a polite circumlocution acceptable by pols and their audiences.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:23 PM
 
10,845 posts, read 8,254,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Err... Working Class?
Exactly. Odd post above.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:27 PM
 
10,845 posts, read 8,254,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
There is some truth to the perception, here. Whatever you might think the final, formal, classroom definition of the term is (hint: there ain't no setch animal), the general use of "working class" means families that work for a living (aren't on any form of 'welfare,' that is), have thin economic resources (but aren't 'poor')... and white. You know, the major populations of Rust Belt and farming country cities.

Most who have used the term very specifically put 'minorities' in other categories, except for the handful that are upright and 'spectable enough to be considered along with the white folks.

Yes, it always has been a fairly racially-polarized, if not racist term. It really means 'white folks too poor to think much about' in a polite circumlocution acceptable by pols and their audiences.
Folks, research the official stats around who is receiving welfare in the Rust Belt and farming areas. Millions of white people on welfare, WIC, and other benefits.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
6,572 posts, read 2,304,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Folks, research the official stats around who is receiving welfare in the Rust Belt and farming areas. Millions of white people on welfare, WIC, and other benefits.
Not news, and nothing much to do with what I wrote. I'm talking about the longstanding traditional (coded) (fairly race-blind if not racist) (stereotypical) definition of the term.

Of course most of the heartland is on welfare. Their industries went away or shed workers like dandruff decades ago. No, that's not gloating.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:31 PM
 
7,581 posts, read 4,859,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
Work at a dead-end job.
Hate your job.
...
While that list is snarkily contemptuous, it's very much the truth. To say that everyone who works for a living is "working class", is akin to saying that everyone who occasionally goes jogging is a competitive athlete, or anyone who's written a ditty on a greeting-card is a poet, or anyone who changes his/her own motor-oil is a mechanic. Rather, it's those people whose jobs offer little creative outlet or archival value, that are "working class". If my job is changing oil at Jiffy Lube, probably I'm working class. If my job is custom-building championship hot-rods that get featured in magazines and wend their way into museums, it strains credulity to call me "working class", at least if our criterion is based on vocation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
Working class people aren't necessarily poor and shiftless or in dead end jobs. They can be prosperous business owners and skilled tradespeople. I expect it has more to do with education, pastimes, and priorities.
A dead-end job is indicative of working-class membership, but is neither necessary, nor sufficient. Prosperity can come to enterprising people of humble origin and no particular academic acumen... in other words, the "street smart". However successful in terms of sheer wealth, they're probably still working class. Most examples in "The Millionaire Next Door" are probably working-class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Huh? What would you call Black or Latino people who do blue collar jobs and are not college educated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by clawsondude View Post
What does being a "legal citizen" have to do with it? Permanent residents can't be counted among the working class?
Exactly. If "working class" somehow carried racial exclusivity, why would we have the additional modifier, "White working class"? And on what grounds do we conflate citizenship-status with class membership?

Indeed, the working-classes around the world are very much alike. Shared traits include a view that work exists to pay the bills, rather than to produce capital for investment, or to derive intellectual satisfaction. And so forth. "Workers of the World, Unite"! is a silly exhortation, precisely because the workers of the world, while not politically in unison, are already very much united in their world-view, lifestyle, values and aims in life.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:34 PM
 
10,845 posts, read 8,254,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Not news, and nothing much to do with what I wrote. I'm talking about the longstanding traditional (coded) (fairly race-blind if not racist) (stereotypical) definition of the term.

Of course most of the heartland is on welfare. Their industries went away or shed workers like dandruff decades ago. No, that's not gloating.
So, are people using coded language based on ignorance of the truth or is it just intentional racism?

Folks, expand your mental picture of working class.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
6,572 posts, read 2,304,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
So, are people using coded language based on ignorance of the truth or is it just intentional racism?

Folks, expand your mental picture of working class.
*sigh*. I made it clear that's the long-standing definition, not necessarily the current one, which includes all races and genders whether the user really means it or not.
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