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Old 05-14-2019, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
7,277 posts, read 2,538,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
Anyone who thinks capitalism has produced any excesses under the yoke of ever-increasing government regulation and taxation should re-evaluate their perspective.
Uh, right.

Having perspective means being able to see past the end of your nose... or past that fat Rand volume.
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,265 posts, read 62,295,128 times
Reputation: 29889
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
C



there isn't much difference in the separate laws anyway.
Clearly, you are not a lawyer.

Or for that matter a business owner in one of the over regulated states.
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Old 05-17-2019, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
7,277 posts, read 2,538,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Or for that matter a business owner in one of the over regulated states.
Instead of one of the states where workers are killed and injured regularly, contaminated foods are produced for national distribution and toxic waste in ground and rivers is a routine matter?

Damn regglayshuns.
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
11,905 posts, read 12,288,244 times
Reputation: 18807
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Americans couldn't give you an accurate definition of socialism to save their lives. They think Europe is socialist, LOL!

Most of the "socialists" in American politics are calling for things that used to exist in America's own past, such as tuition-free college. State universities used to be paid for by the states, wow what a concept!
I went to college in the '60s, and the only state I knew of back then that offered free college to everyone was California. Unfortunately, my parents were not California residents, so I got stuck paying $300/term to go to Oregon State.

I still remember when Oregon crossed the line of paying more for prisons than it did for higher education. I still haven't figured out why paying for colleges is "socialist," and paying for prisons is not.

I don't know when free tuition went away in California. I wasn't paying attention. Not my business, really. Too many kids go to college anyway. We don't have enough skilled workers to maintain our infrastructure. Have you tried to find a decent mechanic lately? Maybe they'll teach convicts to repair cars in prison. We should get something for our money.
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Old 05-18-2019, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
7,277 posts, read 2,538,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post

I don't know when free tuition went away in California. I wasn't paying attention. Not my business, really. Too many kids go to college anyway. We don't have enough skilled workers to maintain our infrastructure. Have you tried to find a decent mechanic lately? Maybe they'll teach convicts to repair cars in prison. We should get something for our money.
Free tuition ended starting about 1980; the fees were trivial for maybe a decade and then rose sharply.

The California community college network has always had a wide variety of AA degrees and certificates in the various trades, and unless something has changed since I last looked (when one of my kids attended), they are solid educations and well-regarded certifications. As for undergrad studies, the right curriculum was accepted directly by the UC system (but not the CSU system, for some reason).

Quote:
I still haven't figured out why paying for colleges is "socialist," and paying for prisons is not.
You'd have to read up on your Rand and the other institutionalized-selfishness thinkers for that.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,370 posts, read 3,681,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
I went to college in the '60s, and the only state I knew of back then that offered free college to everyone was California. Unfortunately, my parents were not California residents, so I got stuck paying $300/term to go to Oregon State.

I still remember when Oregon crossed the line of paying more for prisons than it did for higher education. I still haven't figured out why paying for colleges is "socialist," and paying for prisons is not.

I don't know when free tuition went away in California. I wasn't paying attention. Not my business, really. Too many kids go to college anyway. We don't have enough skilled workers to maintain our infrastructure. Have you tried to find a decent mechanic lately? Maybe they'll teach convicts to repair cars in prison. We should get something for our money.
I'm from Texas... The University of Texas wasn't "free" but what you paid for tuition amounted to a co-pay. The real costs were the living costs. The similar thing today would be community colleges. Back in the 60s, the antecedent of community colleges were city colleges and junior colleges, which actually were free. Then the state universities, like I said, cost a lot to attend because of the living but not because of the tuition.
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Old 05-19-2019, 04:04 PM
 
8,111 posts, read 8,894,064 times
Reputation: 6437
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I'm from Texas... The University of Texas wasn't "free" but what you paid for tuition amounted to a co-pay. The real costs were the living costs. The similar thing today would be community colleges. Back in the 60s, the antecedent of community colleges were city colleges and junior colleges, which actually were free. Then the state universities, like I said, cost a lot to attend because of the living but not because of the tuition.
FWIIW - Dallas County Community College has a deal in place such that DISD kids receive free tuition. They may attend during high school or after HS graduation. There are some strings attached but not many.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:10 PM
 
95 posts, read 32,067 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post
I still remember when Oregon crossed the line of paying more for prisons than it did for higher education. I still haven't figured out why paying for colleges is "socialist," and paying for prisons is not.
This is simple. Keeping criminals locked up benefits everyone. That's why everyone should pay for that thru taxation. Going to college benefits only that particular person: why should others pay for that? So when state pays for higher education - it can be viewed as socialist. How it would be different if state paid for everyone's food or shelter or transportation?
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
7,277 posts, read 2,538,270 times
Reputation: 11197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banbuk77 View Post
This is simple. Keeping criminals locked up benefits everyone. That's why everyone should pay for that thru taxation. Going to college benefits only that particular person: why should others pay for that? So when state pays for higher education - it can be viewed as socialist.
Perfectly aynal thinking.
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Old Yesterday, 06:52 AM
 
3,666 posts, read 3,442,826 times
Reputation: 8674
The state universities used to be very inexpensive to attend, because they were granted large tracts of land by the state (hence the term "land grant universities") and then they received grants and gifts to build their infrastructure.

Unfortunately, in recent decades, universities have drifted from the original mission of educating future leaders and professionals. Now they're a parking zone for kids stuck in a prolonged adolescence.

Don't know what to do after high school? Not interested in joining the military, starting a business, going into sales, going into the trades? Go to college and put off these difficult decisions for four years! Then you come out with $100K of debt and no marketable skills. So of course you vote for the politicians who promise to forgive your debts, and raise your Starbucks pay to "living wage" levels, so you can continue being an adolescent for years to come!!!

We have to get universities back to what they once were, and take away the nanny role that many of them have assumed. Grow up! You're there to get an education that will make you a better person, build a solid professional network, and begin a great career.

Stop building $100 million "student activity centers" and billion dollar sports arenas -- okay, maybe keep the sports arenas as long as it profits the university -- stop turning basic dorms into luxury condos, stop allowing students to major in nonsensical fields such as "gender studies", and require core classics: science, mathematics, history, literature, and language.

I could build a university for a couple million bucks by subdividing an old warehouse into classrooms, buy a few whiteboards, desks, & chairs. Lay some internet cable, hire 25 professors and a couple of admin staff, done. Students live at home and brown-bag it for lunch. This is not rocket science.

Honestly it seems as if college is producing generations of socialists, merely because the students live in a paradise of irresponsibility paid for by others, and heavily indoctrinated by their left-wing 60s generation teachers. Then of course when they graduate, they're still in la-la-land and want to remake the country to suit the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.
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