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And this has been exacerbated by student loans, which allows people to live in denial and obtain degrees for which there aren't many good paying jobs. It also allows the universities to jack up tuition without really trying to economize.
In the UK, for example, bachelors degrees are 3 years, not 4. We could do the same in America. But the colleges don't want to.
They have year-round school. We still operate on an inexplicable agricultural calendar.
You can graduate in 3 years by taking a full load in summer.
Public university budgets are public information. You can view their financials and see where the money's going.
I bet you blame humanities and liberal arts - but those are very cheap to deliver. Running English classes and the like costs nothing more than the salary of the instructor to teach it...so 50-60k divided by number of students. Less than that if it's a part time instructor, which are many.
They have year-round school. We still operate on an inexplicable agricultural calendar.
You can graduate in 3 years by taking a full load in summer.
Public university budgets are public information. You can view their financials and see where the money's going.
I bet you blame humanities and liberal arts - but those are very cheap to deliver. Running English classes and the like costs nothing more than the salary of the instructor to teach it...so 50-60k divided by number of students. Less than that if it's a part time instructor, which are many.
They have year-round school. We still operate on an inexplicable agricultural calendar.
You can graduate in 3 years by taking a full load in summer.
Public university budgets are public information. You can view their financials and see where the money's going.
I bet you blame humanities and liberal arts - but those are very cheap to deliver. Running English classes and the like costs nothing more than the salary of the instructor to teach it...so 50-60k divided by number of students. Less than that if it's a part time instructor, which are many.
UK doesn’t have year round school, but they have 6 weeks off in the summer.
As one of the older millennials myself pushing toward 40, I relate to a lot of what's in this article. My wife and I (she's 34) don't have kids, and I'm starting to doubt having them, and I never would have expected that about myself. In high school I told my girlfriend I wanted 3-5 kids, haha. By my mid-late 20s it became clear that would not happen.
The article complains about student debt. We did not have nearly as much student loan debt as the people in the article - seems quite extreme to have $377k worth like the interviewees! My wife and I had $41k combined. We paid it off relatively easily once we did get jobs and I didn't consider it a huge burden to do so...
The bigger problem than our student debt load was that it took us both until about age 30 to find decent jobs to make it capable to pay them off. Both of us bounced around at survival level wages for most of our 20s, it wasn't for lack of trying that we didn't find good ones. About the time I hit 30, I definitely noticed the recovery from the recession happening... seemed like older people finally began to retire, opening up spots.
We are lucky to have health insurance and neither have faced major health problems like people in the article
However, at this point it does seem like we have to choose between having kids and saving for our own retirement because our 20s were pretty much a lost decade. Much to the chagrin of our parents, who don't seem to understand.
It's not your parents' business if you have kids or not.
You are in the same boat as most Americans.
Had SLs and can't save enough to stop working before you die
They have year-round school. We still operate on an inexplicable agricultural calendar.
You can graduate in 3 years by taking a full load in summer.
Public university budgets are public information. You can view their financials and see where the money's going.
I bet you blame humanities and liberal arts - but those are very cheap to deliver. Running English classes and the like costs nothing more than the salary of the instructor to teach it...so 50-60k divided by number of students. Less than that if it's a part time instructor, which are many.
As a liberal arts major myself, I do put some of the blame on them, not for cost so much, but for the far left wing indoctrination they put people through. Even liberal professors are talking about how crazy and lopsided it's gotten. Jonathan Haidt (a professor himself at NYU, I think) probably documents this best. It wasn't as lopsided when I was in college.
But the larger issue is overhead, IMO. A lot of professors will talk about the insane amount of money spent on administration is (due in part to federal mandates). As long as they can get people to take student loans and not really scrutinize on costs, they'll keep doing it.
As a liberal arts major myself, I do put some of the blame on them, not for cost so much, but for the far left wing indoctrination they put people through. Even liberal professors are talking about how crazy and lopsided it's gotten. Jonathan Haidt (a professor himself at NYU, I think) probably documents this best. It wasn't as lopsided when I was in college.
But the larger issue is overhead, IMO. A lot of professors will talk about the insane amount of money spent on administration is (due in part to federal mandates). As long as they can get people to takestudent loans and not really scrutinize on costs, they'll keep doing it.
I guess the indoctrination didn't work so well on you? Must not have been very effective. If you're indoctrinated you're not supposed to be aware of it.
Arts have always been liberal. I've been reading Tess of the d'Ubervilles. Basically a liberal screed for its time, giving the mainstream culture a middle finger.
They killed Socrates because he was a liberal.
I found the college atmosphere to be refreshing. I grew up in a conservative household, went to a conservative church, lived in a rural area of a conservative town. In Texas. Kids, church, BBQ, football, it's all those people cared about. I desperately needed to be around people who viewed the word differently than that, and it was probably the best experience of my life to get to associate with different kinds of people.
I didn't really care about the professors' political opinions. Most of them were 40-65, had families, kidsz grandkids...why was thier opinion relevant to a 20 year old? Now, the girls I dated? I did care about what they thought.
Since then I've mostly lived around conservatives. Conservatives control most of the country after all. I don't understand why they play the victim so much when they have most of the power.
Makes me miss college. I think conservatives hate colleges because they are something they don't control, one of the few things, & they would like to take that away.
Last edited by redguard57; 05-27-2019 at 01:59 AM..
I guess the indoctrination didn't work so well on you? Must not have been very effective. If you're indoctrinated you're not supposed to be aware of it.
It did in some ways, but in most ways it didn't. But I freely admit I'm a weirdo when it comes to this and a lot of other things. It's working quite well on lots of other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Arts have always been liberal. I've been reading Tess of the d'Ubervilles. Basically a liberal screed for its time, giving the mainstream culture a middle finger.
Key phrase is 'liberal for its time'. That was over 100 years ago. Today's liberalism is a whole different ball game compared to how things were in 1891. In some ways better. In many other ways, much worse.
Yes, the arts have always been liberal, but it's a whole different level of extremism now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
They killed Socrates because he was a liberal.
You're straining your credibility with that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
I found the college atmosphere to be refreshing. I grew up in a conservative household, went to a conservative church, lived in a rural area of a conservative town. In Texas. Kids, church, BBQ, football, it's all those people cared about. I desperately needed to be around people who viewed the word differently than that, and it was probably the best experience of my life to get to associate with different kinds of people.
I'm fairly conservative and I don't live that lifestyle at all. I think you're overgeneralizing based on your personal experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
I didn't really care about the professors' political opinions. Most of them were 40-65,
I don't care per se. But the humanities have been completely hijacked by one ideology--the liberal one. And that does affect people--myself included. Like I said, even liberals have noticed (like liberal gay talk show host Dave Rubin, among others).
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Since then I've mostly lived around conservatives. Conservatives control most of the country after all. I don't understand why they play the victim so much when they have most of the power.
If you're liberal you think that. If you're conservative, you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
Makes me miss college. I think conservatives hate colleges because they are something they don't control, one of the few things, & they would like to take that away.
Conservatives don't control a lot of things. Media & education have been liberal controlled for decades. Of course, there's a power dynamic at play. But can you honestly say if colleges were nearly totally controlled by conservatives (as they are by liberals) that you wouldn't be complaining about it?
It did in some ways, but in most ways it didn't. But I freely admit I'm a weirdo when it comes to this and a lot of other things. It's working quite well on lots of other people.
Key phrase is 'liberal for its time'. That was over 100 years ago. Today's liberalism is a whole different ball game compared to how things were in 1891. In some ways better. In many other ways, much worse.
Yes, the arts have always been liberal, but it's a whole different level of extremism now.
You're straining your credibility with that one.
I'm fairly conservative and I don't live that lifestyle at all. I think you're overgeneralizing based on your personal experience.
I don't care per se. But the humanities have been completely hijacked by one ideology--the liberal one. And that does affect people--myself included. Like I said, even liberals have noticed (like liberal gay talk show host Dave Rubin, among others).
If you're liberal you think that. If you're conservative, you don't.
Conservatives don't control a lot of things. Media & education have been liberal controlled for decades. Of course, there's a power dynamic at play. But can you honestly say if colleges were nearly totally controlled by conservatives (as they are by liberals) that you wouldn't be complaining about it?
Not sure you can hijack something intended to be liberal by the original writers.
The indoctrination isn't working well on anyone, or else the country would be a lot more liberal than it is.
I'm also not convinced college professor liberalism is any worse than it's ever been. William F. Buckley complained about it in his book "God and Man at Yale," way back in 1953. We have social media now which makes anything seem worse when it's really just posted more.
College professors have freedom of speech and academic freedom in their contracts. So they can say what they want. It doesn't seem to be having much of a cultural or political impact, so I would just ignore it.
If it bothers people so much, my recommendation would be for conservatives in the 30 states they control, to stop funding their university systems & close them down. That'll shut those liberals up.
The indoctrination isn't working well on anyone, or else the country would be a lot more liberal than it is.
That's because it's not liberal enough for you. The U.S. and the Western world more generally have gotten more liberal over the decades. That's just a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
I'm also not convinced college professor liberalism is any worse than it's ever been.
Of course not. You've pretty much already made up your mind. I've mentioned other liberal people who've pointed out the rise of left wing authoritarianism. You're not hearing any of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
College professors have freedom of speech and academic freedom in their contracts. So they can say what they want. It doesn't seem to be having much of a cultural or political impact, so I would just ignore it..
If it bothers people so much, my recommendation would be for conservatives in the 30 states they control, to stop funding their university systems & close them down. That'll shut those liberals up.
So that liberals like you can get on your high horse about how conservatives hate education, blah, blah, blah.
That's because it's not liberal enough for you. The U.S. and the Western world more generally have gotten more liberal over the decades. That's just a fact.
Of course not. You've pretty much already made up your mind. I've mentioned other liberal people who've pointed out the rise of left wing authoritarianism. You're not hearing any of it.
So that liberals like you can get on your high horse about how conservatives hate education, blah, blah, blah.
That YouTube weakens your points. That professor said that non- tenured profs are afraid to speak their minds for fear of backlash from students that might jeopardize their already vulnerable jobs. In her own example, her article sounded liberal in and of itself - criticizing people in power and making a sex-positive argument in favor of non-traditional age-discrepancy relationships. But it was not liberal enough, or in the right way, for the student protestors!
So is it the professors or the students that are the problem?
Reminds me of the 60s. My dad put it this way about his college experience - his professors were in his words "the kind of people who voted for FDR." But that was not particularly relevant for student activists in the 1960s/70s. Even if the profs tried to proselytize, it was for New Deal style liberalism of an older era, which was actually kinda conservative, at least in the sense of being old. Who my dad hated were the hippies and "queers." I don't think the profs' preferences for New Deal politics made an impact on him one way or the other. In his view that was liberal, yes, but irrelevant.
I felt the same way. I remember one instructor getting really animated about Reagan, and clearly Ted Kennedy was a hero for her. But this was the early 2000s...I was a toddler when Reagan was president and Ted Kennedy to me was an elder statesman on his way to retirement. None of her rant spoke to anything I cared about at the time, so it convinced me of nothing. I did care about the pretty girl's attention who was going to a protest against the Iraq War, which I was also against.
I feel the same kind of thing is going on some campuses now.
Last edited by redguard57; 05-27-2019 at 09:45 AM..
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