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Old 06-12-2019, 10:50 PM
 
Location: USA
6,223 posts, read 5,353,584 times
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Keep in mind we do subsidize the low wage service industry worker thru various programs such as food stamps, medicaid, etc.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
1,808 posts, read 2,083,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Yes and no. Should we be grateful to our "overlords" that we've not been lobotomized, neutered, chained to a machine and forced to work until we expire in a few months? No. Should we be grateful that society overall has advanced to the point that dying from starvation or communicable disease is relatively rare, even in Africa? Yes.

Here's the argument that troubles me. 60 years ago, Joe Sixpack could goof off in high school, graduating with a 2.2 GPA. The day after graduation, Joe saunters over to the factory across town, and is hired on the spot. Joe is neither a particularly accomplished talent, or a dedicated worker. But he generally does show up for work, and generally shows up sober and on time. His accident-rate is low, and most of the parts that he stamps-out pass through quality-control. Slowly, Joe gets promoted... not by much, not into upper management, but enough to earn some seniority. He accumulates towards a pension. He buys a house, marries, has kids... buys a boat, and an F-150 to tow it. 35 years later, Joe retires with a pension.

That was 60 years ago. For modern Joe Sixpack, such a path is more fraught and tenuous... maybe impossible. Do we say that this is an injustice? Do we say that modern-Joe deserves what 1959-Joe got? Do we say that society has declined, and in some sense reneged on the social-contract, in denying modern-Joe the opportunities readily available to 1959-Joe? Or do we say instead that the mid-20th century was an aberration, and an unsustainable one at that?

Let's instead consider 1459 Joe Sixpack. This Joe has the good fortune to survive into adulthood. Half of his brothers and sisters did not. As a serf, Joe owes three days a week of unpaid labor to his lord. He may even get conscripted into the lord's army, and never be heard-from again. But suppose not. Joe grows up and follows in the path of his father and grandfather, tilling the soil. Eventually the village selects a wife for Joe. He marries. He and Mrs. Joe have 7 children, of which 3 make it to adulthood. At age 46, Joe is too weakened and worn-out to be effective on the farm. Along comes a bout of plague, killing Joe, and thus sparing the family worry over how to take care of the impendingly-decrepit Joe.

What's the point of this? The point is that not even in the most dystopian fantasy are we considering a return to 1459. We are likely headed for 1859, not 1459. And in historical terms, 1859 is actually pretty good.
Can you come up with an as accurately detailed narrative for 1859 Joe as you did for 1459 Joe? I'd love to hear it, because honestly my knowledge of society in 1859 probably isn't what it should be and I'd like to have some idea.

Thanks!
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
1,424 posts, read 2,090,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1alker View Post
Keep in mind we do subsidize the low wage service industry worker thru various programs such as food stamps, medicaid, etc.
This infuriates me to no end.

I'd much rather the worker enjoy the dignity of being sufficiently paid to afford healthcare, food, and market-rate shelter rather than endure the stigma and artificially-contrived, demeaning hurdles in place involved with obtaining public assistance.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:49 AM
 
Location: USA
6,223 posts, read 5,353,584 times
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Originally Posted by Amelorn View Post
This infuriates me to no end.

I'd much rather the worker enjoy the dignity of being sufficiently paid to afford healthcare, food, and market-rate shelter rather than endure the stigma and artificially-contrived, demeaning hurdles in place involved with obtaining public assistance.
All those low wage employers would go out of business if they had to pay their workers a middle wage salary to afford all those things.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,448 posts, read 3,754,329 times
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As someone who worked registers when he was young, I always hated the d-bags who paid in some weird cash combination trying to test my change-making ability. When you do hundreds of transactions a certain way for hours, it's going to take a minute to figure out that a onesie particular customer wants exactly $1.35 in change from his $9.02 order or whatever. It's especially infuriating when they're doing it to prove some stupid point to themselves by flummoxing a minimum wage worker.

This was in the early 2000s. I imagine it's worse now that even fewer customers use cash.

If you act that way at your fast food joint, you prove nothing but that you're a d-bag.

It took me about 2 months to get enough of those types of customers to figure out how to do what they wanted.
Once I learned that they wanted me to make change 1950s style, it would disappoint them when I would do it because it would rain on their ego parade. It was always older white men who played those stupid games.

Last edited by redguard57; 06-14-2019 at 09:41 AM..
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
This was in the early 2000s. I imagine it's worse now that even fewer customers use cash.
OTOH, many video-game registers now display the exact breakdown of change to be returned. Sometimes pictorially.

I never ran into someone wanting, say, $1.35 back. But someone quick enough to realize that $21 handed over meant a five and some small change, rather than four ones and a pile of coins, is not a d-bag out to get the poor cashier.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:47 AM
 
2,139 posts, read 524,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelorn View Post
This infuriates me to no end.

I'd much rather the worker enjoy the dignity of being sufficiently paid to afford healthcare, food, and market-rate shelter rather than endure the stigma and artificially-contrived, demeaning hurdles in place involved with obtaining public assistance.
Lots of emotion there.

How much would that sufficient pay be? While it varies substantially from zip-code-to-zip-code, for sake of argument, let's say it is $50,000 in a given community.

Let's say that employee is capable of generating his employer $30,000 of incremental profits. Clearly, if his employer were to pay the worker $50K in this hypothetical, the employer would lose money and soon go out of bankrupt.

Is that really what you want?
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
Lots of emotion there.
Something you clearly have a lot of trouble with, but we'll skip the encounter session.

Perpetually rationalizing our economic practice as a cold-equations, darwinian cage match is the viewpoint of someone who thinks they're an apex predator... or could be one someday, by gosh.

I guess emotion is just a weakness of those who are, in Tom Waits' memorable phrase, "screaming in the mud."
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:48 AM
 
7,895 posts, read 5,024,944 times
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Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Perpetually rationalizing our economic practice as a cold-equations, darwinian cage match is the viewpoint of someone who thinks they're an apex predator... or could be one someday, by gosh....
... or the viewpoint of somebody who fears the solution more than they fear the problem. I am only a small predator, but I'd rather take my chances in getting eaten myself, than of living in a vegetarian world.
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Old 06-15-2019, 03:05 PM
 
2,139 posts, read 524,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
... or the viewpoint of somebody who fears the solution more than they fear the problem. I am only a small predator, but I'd rather take my chances in getting eaten myself, than of living in a vegetarian world.
After all, how much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a plant?

And Vegetarians, by and large, have hearing problems. For example, they can't hear a tomato scream when you cut into it.
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