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Old 05-23-2019, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12769

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
All I hear is, "Take from you and give to me."
Any... reform of capitalism is going to involve exactly that.

The predatory version we've lived with since about Reagan is based on the notion that anything you can grab is yours, regardless of the consequences. And now we have an adult population deeply indoctrinated that any contribution back to the socioeconomic matrix that allowed them to accumulate that wealth is some kind of theft.
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:51 AM
 
2,136 posts, read 524,377 times
Reputation: 3726
Occaisional-Cortex is a manufactured product who lacks the ability to perform critical analysis, instead pandering to the unthinking progressive proto-Stalinist masses with platitudes neither understand.
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:53 AM
 
2,136 posts, read 524,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
All I hear is, "Take from you and give to me."
If you close your eyes and listen very carefully, you'll hear "Take from Republicans and give to Democrats."
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12769
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
If you close your eyes and listen very carefully, you'll hear "Take from Republicans and give to Democrats."
What's your point?

That there's deep polarization on socioeconomic outlook as well as ideology, here?
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Old 05-23-2019, 11:56 AM
 
26,075 posts, read 28,473,598 times
Reputation: 24783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
All I hear is, "Take from you and give to me." Americans are already a government-driven and naturally generous people. It's an endless and tiresome theme that most caring people have already implemented in their lives if they are inclined or capable.

I see Capitalism as a sort of Ponzi scheme in the sense that it requires constant growth. In my lifetime I've seen the results, both positive and negative, and believe that our saving grace will be lowered expectations and downsizing. If we don't do it ourselves, and we won't, some force greater than politics and the market will adjust it eventually.

So far it's the best people have been able to devise but its downside is becoming more apparent as everything speeds up.
The Ponzi scheme actually isn't Capitalism but the fractional reserve banking system. We essentially have a debt based money system. When money can only be created as debt, that can only lead to serious trouble at some point.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12769
I am perpetually tickled when even the nominally center-left goes all rabid over AOC. It reminds me of the huge flaps when some junior state congresscritter from Berkeley submits a bill to ban all cars, or something.

Ideas are not enough, whether you're Bernie, Pete or Alexandria. You have to have the connections and horsepower to move them along. None of these pols of j.g. rank do.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:14 PM
 
3,247 posts, read 842,766 times
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"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -John Steinbeck

Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaires

I understand landholding, business-owning, dividend-drawing classes may have a vested interest to vote in support of what maximizes their streams of income. Anyone would, I suppose.

What I don't understand is people who don't have a pot to _____ in, (working 60 hours a week with no benefits because that's the best paying job within 100 miles) voting for the same.

There only seems to be hard left, and hard right. "In order to vote for more worker protections, you must be a bleeding heart liberal". Separate fiscal vs. social. A friend of mine made this observation and began telling me about people like Huey Long, an old school southern Democrat. "How many of y'all ever been to a barbecue? . . . " That guy.

https://teachinghistory.org/history-...textbook/23919

https://americanrhetoric.com/speeche...hpressclub.htm
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:17 PM
 
Location: In a vehicle.
5,020 posts, read 3,207,482 times
Reputation: 8203
Frankly, no other system offers so much to those who strive and seek to make money.

If you strive for wealth, you can do it via investing, gambling, working.

Capitalism rewards hard work, inventiveness and a willing to sacrifice today for benefits of tomorrow...Sure the wealthy have it good and have taken advantage of positions. But they started like everyone else...they started poor. Their predecessors were careful in teaching them to be careful with money and how to invest.

Now I agree that it would be nice if they'd give some of their fortunes to the public good. But then many already do. Without force they give away much. The thing make makes me shake my head is the demand they give more.

I don't make big bucks, but quite often I will buy 96 cup o noodles packs (12 to a case) and drop them off at a homeless outreach. I can't solve every issue and even if we had enough money to do so, we'd still not solve them as it also is the individual who is the main link in this. Find a willing worker, you have a start, have an unwilling worker, you have a leech.

This is why I feel the govt shouldn't be involved. I'd LOVE it if the insurance companies could sell across state lines and to whoever wants it. I'd like to simplify it. Have charges for going to the doctor, but insurance covers all hospital events.

I'm leaning to tort reform, but not too sure that's what we need...

Still, this is the best country to become a millionaire in. I kind of wonder how anyone going into Congress, can go in at 175K a year and within 10-20 years, be a multi-millionaire...
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,579 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12769
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." -John Steinbeck
Bingo. I think that's the only Steinbeck quote of any significance I've heard.

Americans believe simultaneously that we are a classless society and that anyone can move up into the highest ranks of its classlessness, by sheer grit alone. That many unlikely countries have much greater economic mobility, even while being known as highly classed, astounds those who learn this.
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Old 05-23-2019, 12:22 PM
 
3,247 posts, read 842,766 times
Reputation: 3758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Bingo. I think that's the only Steinbeck quote of any significance I've heard.

Americans believe simultaneously that we are a classless society and that anyone can move up into the highest ranks of its classlessness, by sheer grit alone. That many unlikely countries have much greater economic mobility, even while being known as highly classed, astounds those who learn this.
Anyone who's been to high school should know this. But nope, you're right!
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