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Old 06-20-2019, 04:07 PM
 
2,700 posts, read 2,364,983 times
Reputation: 3103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I'll point out again: Most people never get a bachelor's degree, "meaningful" or otherwise.
And most people never wind up in the upper middle class or 1%.

Quote:
The kid who doesn't know by ninth grade that he or she want to do something that requires a scholastic degree is already behind the power curve for one. That kid is already behind and will fall farther behind.

At best (but really worst) that particular kid is going to be talked into trying to go to college and won't get a "meaningful" degree, but will get into a lot of debt.

Most kids today aren't given an option for anything else. My argument is that they should be given a true option.
I don't disagree with your overall conclusion... that many kids who aren't college material spend time pursuing a college degree and either don't finish or wind up with one that isn't particularly valuable.

But I don't think it is kids "aren't being given a true option". Even 20 years ago, plenty of high schools offered classes for the trades. The military was, is, and will continue to be an option for many.

The problem, imo, is that even though we know only the top 50%, or top 30%, or whatever... are "college material" but nobody wants to be told that they don't have what it takes to be a doctor, engineer, pharmacist, dentist, computer scientist, etc even when it is pretty obvious by age 11 or 12 that they either are or aren't.

Give me 1000 random 7th graders and their grades/test scores and I can probably pretty easily pick out 300 that won't be earning a college degree of any kind, much less one that has a lot of value. I would also easily pick out another 300 that will almost certainly go to college straight out of high school, and most of whom will graduate within 5 or 6 years.

I loved basketball, but I wasn't an all-star at age 10... and my dad stood 5'8" tall. So I (and my parents) decided it would probably be wiser to join scholars bowl and math team than spending hundreds of hours working on my crossover dribble or jump shot.

For some reason, it is taboo to do this same exercise with people who struggle with pre-algebra.
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:52 PM
 
20,077 posts, read 11,137,874 times
Reputation: 20120
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post

But I don't think it is kids "aren't being given a true option". Even 20 years ago, plenty of high schools offered classes for the trades. The military was, is, and will continue to be an option for many.
Both are considerably less available now.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Boston
7,801 posts, read 2,269,793 times
Reputation: 5557
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
I don't disagree with your overall conclusion... that many kids who aren't college material spend time pursuing a college degree and either don't finish or wind up with one that isn't particularly valuable.

But I don't think it is kids "aren't being given a true option". Even 20 years ago, plenty of high schools offered classes for the trades. The military was, is, and will continue to be an option for many.

The problem, imo, is that even though we know only the top 50%, or top 30%, or whatever... are "college material" but nobody wants to be told that they don't have what it takes to be a doctor, engineer, pharmacist, dentist, computer scientist, etc even when it is pretty obvious by age 11 or 12 that they either are or aren't.

Give me 1000 random 7th graders and their grades/test scores and I can probably pretty easily pick out 300 that won't be earning a college degree of any kind, much less one that has a lot of value. I would also easily pick out another 300 that will almost certainly go to college straight out of high school, and most of whom will graduate within 5 or 6 years.
.
Poor parenting in many cases. Why encourage someone to take on massive debt when they're not committed or is non-marketable. Many parents do their kids a disservice leading them down that path.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:34 PM
 
1,043 posts, read 217,464 times
Reputation: 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
“The hard times of the Great Recession”??


LOL.

Correct. People graduating around 2008-2011 had very hard times securing employment. Lots of competition in the job market from people who had lots of experience and who had lost jobs. So if you graduated during this time period, you probably learned to live very frugally.
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Old 06-20-2019, 08:46 PM
 
1,043 posts, read 217,464 times
Reputation: 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
Poor parenting in many cases. Why encourage someone to take on massive debt when they're not committed or is non-marketable. Many parents do their kids a disservice leading them down that path.

I have worked in higher education for 12+ years now so I get a good inside look at this. The amount of parents who are absolutely clueless about the lack of marketability of many degree tracks is astounding. They have done no research of their own, and are willing to shell out $50K+ or have their kids go in debt $50K+ over something that could easily be preventable. And they won't listen when you tell them this specific major has no marketability in today's job market. But then they are mad when their kid graduates with no real-world job prospects.

I think a lot of parents just view it as a status thing that their kid is in "college" and they can brag on Facebook about it. No planning is done, but hey their kid is in college! Little Johnny wants to major in gender studies, isn't that adorable?!
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:31 PM
 
20,077 posts, read 11,137,874 times
Reputation: 20120
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy View Post
Poor parenting in many cases. Why encourage someone to take on massive debt when they're not committed or is non-marketable. Many parents do their kids a disservice leading them down that path.
It's not just the parents, it's every avenue of information in the kid's life for 12 years. Anything but a bachelor's degree is a booby prize--that's what the Education Industry says, that's what government says.

Now, I knew one kid, a friend of my daughter's who bucked it. His father was a very well-to-do contractor, and the kid intended to take over his father's business. But he had a heck of a time bucking the college-bound system to create the high school curriculum he needed to learn what a contractor needed to know. He had to fight his counselors all the way. The only reason he could do so was because in his case, he knew precisely what he wanted to do and what it would take to get there, so he couldn't be baffled by the bull****e.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:34 PM
 
20,077 posts, read 11,137,874 times
Reputation: 20120
Quote:
Originally Posted by heart84 View Post
I have worked in higher education for 12+ years now so I get a good inside look at this. The amount of parents who are absolutely clueless about the lack of marketability of many degree tracks is astounding. They have done no research of their own, and are willing to shell out $50K+ or have their kids go in debt $50K+ over something that could easily be preventable. And they won't listen when you tell them this specific major has no marketability in today's job market. But then they are mad when their kid graduates with no real-world job prospects.

I think a lot of parents just view it as a status thing that their kid is in "college" and they can brag on Facebook about it. No planning is done, but hey their kid is in college! Little Johnny wants to major in gender studies, isn't that adorable?!
"Today's job market" doesn't mean much when the kid is 18 and won't have that degree for another four years. So the fact is, you are pretty much as clueless in what the job market will be in four years.

And are you willing to tell the kid who you know doesn't have the scholastic ability to do better than a "General Studies" degree not to spend that money?
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:06 AM
 
Location: South Carolina - The Palmetto State
968 posts, read 1,524,660 times
Reputation: 1083
I know this is probably "just me", but.....

In all these discussions, it always seems to be Baby Boomers vs Millennials. But, the people in Gen X and Y are skipped right over as if we don't exist - like babies stopped being born at about 1962 and didn't start again until 1985.


There are millions of us in those groups (I was born in 1966) and a lot of us have spending dollars - nobody seems to want them, though.

I know, crazy talk. But, it does seem a lot of corporations view their potential customers as either under 35 or over 65....maybe that is where some of their issues may lie??

Just a thought.
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Old 06-21-2019, 07:19 AM
Status: "Excited to move to Vegas!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Beaverton, OR
5,529 posts, read 5,897,134 times
Reputation: 6299
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I'm in my mid 30s as an older millennial.

There is a HUGE difference in shopping culture between us and older ages. For people my parents age and older, they have so much crap in their houses it's unbelievable. I can't fathom how much money they spent on knick-knacky crap throughout their lives. No millennial wants that stuff; it's no wonder retailers are dying off.

Millennials will spend a hell of a lot on experiences, though. Concerts, music, art, whatever festivals, sports, eating out, even small daily things like coffee. They love food trucks, coffee live music, craft beer, preferably all in close proximity.
This is why I’m so happy my commercial real estate investments are leaning towards hotels and office buildings and not strip malls and large shopping malls. Yikes those things sound like a disaster and judging from vacancies I honestly can’t imagine they’re doing well.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:39 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,748 posts, read 54,373,866 times
Reputation: 31030
Quote:
Originally Posted by cougfan View Post
I know this is probably "just me", but.....

In all these discussions, it always seems to be Baby Boomers vs Millennials. But, the people in Gen X and Y are skipped right over as if we don't exist - like babies stopped being born at about 1962 and didn't start again until 1985.


There are millions of us in those groups (I was born in 1966) and a lot of us have spending dollars - nobody seems to want them, though.

I know, crazy talk. But, it does seem a lot of corporations view their potential customers as either under 35 or over 65....maybe that is where some of their issues may lie??

Just a thought.
Good point. In fact the Gen Xers are the ones that are moving up from condos to homes, having kids and buying a lot of diapers and other things they need for the little ones. That's why they are not "worried" about them. It's what happens when the Gen X becomes empty nesters if the Millennials are still not buying their products and services. Businesses depend on increased sales to survive. That's why certain businesses that depended on the "great generation" and Boomers are folding up, not because of the internet. For example fabric stores and quilt shops.



https://craftindustryalliance.org/fa...fter-26-years/
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