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Old 06-26-2019, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,561 posts, read 3,001,676 times
Reputation: 12765

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
You canít actually answer the question because all of your proposals are fantasy.
Oh, horse 'ockeys. You're really going off the rails, here.

Nothing in this thread has anything to do with "my proposals," just as it has very little to do with Why Our Underclass Is An Underclass. If you've lost the ability to distinguish between topics, even in a narrow field like this, maybe you need to take a forum break.

Wanna slug it out pointlessly over why the poor are poor? Start an actual thread on that topic instead of hijacking/allowing to be hijacked every other thread about personal economics.

Wanna slug it out over any of "my proposals"? Start a thread on any you perceive as such.

But pointless temper tantrums like this are, really, pretty beneath you. Not others... but you.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:00 PM
 
527 posts, read 616,303 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vana360 View Post
So I am having a hard time understanding/processing all of the information we read out there relating to salaries, house prices, student loan debt, food costs, transportation, etc. Is almost everyone living on a financial edge? If you simply take the median household income of $61k, how are people paying for housing wherein the median price in the U.S. is around $300k? Hell, even if that median household income was $80k its still not enough!

After you had your mortgage, and some basic living expenses like food and gas for your car there is not much left over. How are you then paying student load debt, spending on other consumer products (e.g., consumer spending is at all-time highs), paying your car note (the car debt is at an all time high as well - over a trillion dollars), where the average car transaction sale is around $30k per KBB. Ohh and dont forget to save for retirement as well.

Curious to hear what other people think. I know the numbers above are not perfect, however, I would say they are accurate enough for this discussion.
Your average person/family tries to chew more than they can afford. They keep spending and spending until every penny is gone. Banks are dumb enough to give them loans they can't afford and when they lose their jobs they go into foreclosure. Your average person is 60 days behind on their car payment.

A lot of people out there, meaning millions, have no clue how many works. They were raised to go to school and get a job and take out loans like their parents did. They then have kids and the process repeats.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:07 PM
 
11,922 posts, read 21,503,013 times
Reputation: 11694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Iím actually curious what you actually expect

I was poor. Iíve been homeless. In fact, Iíve lived in some of the poorest areas this country has to offer. Iíve been to subsidized house facilities. Iíve seen the abuse first hand. Iíve seen the drugs. The mindset. The laziness.

How do you propose we make those people have a fair and awesome outcome where they are productive? Do they even want to do anything at all? See Iíve actually been in the real world, where people hate education. They hate working harder ďfor the manĒ. They would think nothing of doing drugs or simply stop showing up to a job. How do you help someone like that when they donít care to help themselves?



My biggest expense today in my budget is taxes. Itís actually more than 2 and 3 line items combined. Think about how idiotic that is. Iíve also done dozens of different charities and things like big brothers big sisters. Why more should someone like me be expected to do in your eyes? What do I need to do to ďmake it rightĒ?
This is really well written and spot on. The people calling to "help the poor" really don't understand how most of them think.

I too was poor. Not homeless, mind you, but yes definitely poor, to where I paid around $100/yr in federal income tax. For the year! That was very "low income"! Haha.

But it was a means to and end, I was working for experience not the paycheck at the time.

These days I do work around lots of lower paid folks. They have full time jobs and actually are quite responsible but even for them, the mentality of "spend it" permeates. Very few people can sacrifice and invest with a longer term horizon.

America was never meant to be a "fair" place. It is a place where (hopefully) those who work harder than others can capitalize on their investments. Some are born with a huge advantage, some with large disadvantages. That's life. As long as the system here isn't keeping people at the lower class despite their hard work and achievement, it is working as designed.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:18 PM
 
730 posts, read 529,915 times
Reputation: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vana360 View Post
So I am having a hard time understanding/processing all of the information we read out there relating to salaries, house prices, student loan debt, food costs, transportation, etc. Is almost everyone living on a financial edge? If you simply take the median household income of $61k, how are people paying for housing wherein the median price in the U.S. is around $300k? Hell, even if that median household income was $80k its still not enough!

After you had your mortgage, and some basic living expenses like food and gas for your car there is not much left over. How are you then paying student load debt, spending on other consumer products (e.g., consumer spending is at all-time highs), paying your car note (the car debt is at an all time high as well - over a trillion dollars), where the average car transaction sale is around $30k per KBB. Ohh and dont forget to save for retirement as well.

Curious to hear what other people think. I know the numbers above are not perfect, however, I would say they are accurate enough for this discussion.
I love that you are asking his question because it shows that you want to know how to make it work for you and your family in todayís economy.
The short answer to your question is no. There are many reasons but basically the vast number of people who earn 60k purchased their homes years ago for much less than 300k or built equity and used it to purchase a more expensive home by putting down a larger downpayment and keeping their monthly expenses reasonable.
The average late 30s makes over 50k so that means 100k for 2 working adults.
Most people who canít afford it donít choose a car for 30k and many city dwellers rely on public transportation and live with roommates
Lots of young people get help from their family including free room/board, old family car gifted, help with first home purchase.
Of course some people are on the financial edge but most people are not homeless or about to file for bankruptcy. They figure out how to reduce their costs or earn more.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:51 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,524 posts, read 39,903,732 times
Reputation: 23629
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
I look a these posts and have a difficult time understanding what people expect.

When I was just starting my family many years ago .... Went to school at night, worked multiple jobs, bought cheap housing, cars, etc. and now have an adequate retirement.

Life working from the bottom is never easy but millions do it and some make it to the top 10%.
this^^^

No free rides...
I did all my life earnings as a single earner starting at $1.50 / hr on my first REAL FT job.
Bought my first home at age 19 on that income (for my parents to live in).
NEVER made over $80k / yr, and I always gave more away than I spent on myself. (Makes it easy to live inexpensively)
Retired... pre age 50. (quit wage income . no pension / no Healthcare)

but...
Is almost everyone living on the financial edge?

Yes......this is America, land of litigation.

Have you worked 50 yrs and saved up millions of $? Think you are ALL SET!
ONE medical event, or liability lawsuit can 'Finish you off'

59 yo friend has spent $3m (personal funds) in the last 6 months, much more to go... (medical issue)
His business assets were the first to go, house (because it was on Business property) will be next, then cars...

Wife will be left widowed and destitute.
"Spousal Impoverishment".
Happens to thousands in USA every day of the yr.

Last edited by StealthRabbit; 06-26-2019 at 10:00 PM..
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Old 06-27-2019, 02:43 AM
 
11 posts, read 1,073 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
this^^^



Have you worked 50 yrs and saved up millions of $? Think you are ALL SET!
ONE medical event, or liability lawsuit can 'Finish you off'

omg never thought of this in this way, but yeah so true!
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:03 AM
 
71,456 posts, read 71,629,249 times
Reputation: 49006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
This is really well written and spot on. The people calling to "help the poor" really don't understand how most of them think.

I too was poor. Not homeless, mind you, but yes definitely poor, to where I paid around $100/yr in federal income tax. For the year! That was very "low income"! Haha.

But it was a means to and end, I was working for experience not the paycheck at the time.

These days I do work around lots of lower paid folks. They have full time jobs and actually are quite responsible but even for them, the mentality of "spend it" permeates. Very few people can sacrifice and invest with a longer term horizon.

America was never meant to be a "fair" place. It is a place where (hopefully) those who work harder than others can capitalize on their investments. Some are born with a huge advantage, some with large disadvantages. That's life. As long as the system here isn't keeping people at the lower class despite their hard work and achievement, it is working as designed.
my sentiments exactly
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:06 AM
 
71,456 posts, read 71,629,249 times
Reputation: 49006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyinpink View Post
omg never thought of this in this way, but yeah so true!
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
this^^^


Have you worked 50 yrs and saved up millions of $? Think you are ALL SET!


that is why we have all forms of insurance that mitigates damages for many of the events that can devastate us .

most don't want to "waste " the money to have these needed insurances at the base of the investment pyramid because they don't want to utilize any of the gains for it , but once again that event that devastates you can be traced back to a bad decision and poor choice in not protecting what you have.

i always believed in placing the needed mitigating insurance at the base of my asset pyramid to call it that ...


that needed insurance is right there at the base mitigating the damages i can protect against , using a fraction of the gains from the assets above it . can we protect against everything ? of course not but there are things that need far more protection than others .

disability insurance -liability insurance - good health insurance and long term care insurance are some of these protections one may consider , especially if your state offers partnership plans for long term care .
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Old 06-27-2019, 03:53 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
12,453 posts, read 4,209,786 times
Reputation: 9762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vana360 View Post
So I am having a hard time understanding/processing all of the information we read out there relating to salaries, house prices, student loan debt, food costs, transportation, etc. Is almost everyone living on a financial edge? If you simply take the median household income of $61k, how are people paying for housing wherein the median price in the U.S. is around $300k? Hell, even if that median household income was $80k its still not enough!

After you had your mortgage, and some basic living expenses like food and gas for your car there is not much left over. How are you then paying student load debt, spending on other consumer products (e.g., consumer spending is at all-time highs), paying your car note (the car debt is at an all time high as well - over a trillion dollars), where the average car transaction sale is around $30k per KBB. Ohh and dont forget to save for retirement as well.

Curious to hear what other people think. I know the numbers above are not perfect, however, I would say they are accurate enough for this discussion.
You may be on to something here.

We make 40% more than average, but paid 25% of the median for the house. Throw in no car payments as well.

Keep your costs down, people !
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Old 06-27-2019, 04:06 AM
 
Location: Wartrace,TN
5,546 posts, read 8,882,501 times
Reputation: 11053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Was there ever a time or place in human history where citizens could not work for a year? Or 3 months?


2009 anyone? There were mass layoffs and yes people went a year or more without working; particularly older workers.

Seems to me there were a lot of people during the great depression that were out of work for years as well.

Not only those two examples. What about someone that becomes disabled? If they lack disability insurance they are screwed. It often takes well over a year to qualify for SSDI.
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