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Old 06-30-2019, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,868 posts, read 14,217,545 times
Reputation: 16058

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
Is it possible to find out, (For Adjusted to todays Dollar) how many % of the American taxpayers, earned more then $1 Million in salary.. going back 100-200 years?
No. Such data was never collected.

The Census Bureau did attempt to start collecting that information in the 1850, 1860, 1870, 1880 and 1890 Census, but the data is highly suspect.

It's well-established that the US Marshals hired to function as enumerators for the census did a shoddy job.

That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of any number of federal government agencies and private entities that rely on that data for studies. NBER and the Federal Reserve and others rip them for it.

I've actually posted the nasty things they've said in past. They did, in fact, extract financial information from the 1890 Census before it was destroyed in a fire.

The Marshals were in such a hurry, that if a house sat too far from the road, they'd skip it and go to the next house, which is why census records have the wrong names of people, or misspelled or missing family members and the financial info is wrong.

But, I will say this. A marriage license in Tennessee cost $1,500. No, I didn't stutter.

I have a few hundred marriage licenses issued in Tennessee between 1820 and 1900. It was $1,500. I even had family members living in Whitley, Bell and Harlan Counties in Kentucky cross over the border into Campbell and Claiborne Counties in Tennessee and pay $1,500 for a marriage license.

Would you pay $1,500 for a marriage license today?

Probably not. You know, if States charged that amount, they'd have more income and there'd probably be fewer divorces.

Anyway, you can get that data on NBER. In 1850 the average income is believe to be about $325/year and by 1890 it was around $440/year.

You're probably saying you couldn't live off that. Well, no, you could. Just strike all your bills. All of them. You wouldn't have a mortgage, home insurance, car note, car insurance, electric, natural gas, water, cable, cell-phone or internet bill.

You might have a mortgage, but remember your house is only going to be 200-400 square feet.

And, you wouldn't be eating meat 7 days a week, either. You'd eat a big breakfast, big lunch and little for dinner. Don't forget you live within walking distance of where you work, so you come home for lunch, unless you're a miner or a lumber-jack or you work in the mills.

Also, don't forget that prior to 1940, 90% of Americans, including children, worked in agriculture.

If you did have the data, you'd find that probably less than 0.05% were Millionaires.

One reason you have more Millionaires is because only 2% of your population works in agriculture now.
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Old 06-30-2019, 12:59 PM
 
2,029 posts, read 857,321 times
Reputation: 5027
Not if they have a good accountant, and I'm sure most of them do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
People with a million a year in income are already paying over 50% of their income in taxes.
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Old 06-30-2019, 05:10 PM
 
1,148 posts, read 523,448 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspez View Post
Not if they have a good accountant, and I'm sure most of them do.
not much a good accountant can do about salary, common myth that anyone who is rich can magically make their tax bill next to nothing. When you're getting W-2 income there really isn't a whole lot to shelter it. Maybe a deferred comp plan, if the company offers one, but that's just kicking the can down the road.
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Old 06-30-2019, 05:35 PM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,816 posts, read 1,003,285 times
Reputation: 2844
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
People with a million a year in income are already paying over 50% of their income in taxes.
Only if they live in Oregon, California and a few NE states.
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Old 06-30-2019, 06:53 PM
 
5,096 posts, read 2,743,062 times
Reputation: 9349
I work at a $2B and 0 people make over $1M
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:23 PM
 
2,029 posts, read 857,321 times
Reputation: 5027
Are most people making more than a million a year on a W-2? How many are consultants, in sales, etc. who can claim a large portion of their income as business expenses?
Kicking the can down the road can be very beneficial if you start to pay those taxes at 71 after your working days are long gone. IRA RMD's only amount to about 4% of your balance and can be extended to age 96. If you don't live to 96 your heirs pick up the RMD schedule.

Then there's all of these:
https://www.accounting-degree.org/accounting-tricks/


Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
not much a good accountant can do about salary, common myth that anyone who is rich can magically make their tax bill next to nothing. When you're getting W-2 income there really isn't a whole lot to shelter it. Maybe a deferred comp plan, if the company offers one, but that's just kicking the can down the road.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
5,433 posts, read 4,080,880 times
Reputation: 7244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
No. Such data was never collected.

The Census Bureau did attempt to start collecting that information in the 1850, 1860, 1870, 1880 and 1890 Census, but the data is highly suspect.

It's well-established that the US Marshals hired to function as enumerators for the census did a shoddy job.

That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of any number of federal government agencies and private entities that rely on that data for studies. NBER and the Federal Reserve and others rip them for it.

I've actually posted the nasty things they've said in past. They did, in fact, extract financial information from the 1890 Census before it was destroyed in a fire.

The Marshals were in such a hurry, that if a house sat too far from the road, they'd skip it and go to the next house, which is why census records have the wrong names of people, or misspelled or missing family members and the financial info is wrong.

But, I will say this. A marriage license in Tennessee cost $1,500. No, I didn't stutter.

I have a few hundred marriage licenses issued in Tennessee between 1820 and 1900. It was $1,500. I even had family members living in Whitley, Bell and Harlan Counties in Kentucky cross over the border into Campbell and Claiborne Counties in Tennessee and pay $1,500 for a marriage license.

Would you pay $1,500 for a marriage license today?

Probably not. You know, if States charged that amount, they'd have more income and there'd probably be fewer divorces.

Anyway, you can get that data on NBER. In 1850 the average income is believe to be about $325/year and by 1890 it was around $440/year.

You're probably saying you couldn't live off that. Well, no, you could. Just strike all your bills. All of them. You wouldn't have a mortgage, home insurance, car note, car insurance, electric, natural gas, water, cable, cell-phone or internet bill.

You might have a mortgage, but remember your house is only going to be 200-400 square feet.

And, you wouldn't be eating meat 7 days a week, either. You'd eat a big breakfast, big lunch and little for dinner. Don't forget you live within walking distance of where you work, so you come home for lunch, unless you're a miner or a lumber-jack or you work in the mills.

Also, don't forget that prior to 1940, 90% of Americans, including children, worked in agriculture.

If you did have the data, you'd find that probably less than 0.05% were Millionaires.

One reason you have more Millionaires is because only 2% of your population works in agriculture now.
Ok I gotta ask. Why would they cross into Tennessee and pAy more?
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:46 PM
 
633 posts, read 488,859 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
No. Such data was never collected.

The Census Bureau did attempt to start collecting that information in the 1850, 1860, 1870, 1880 and 1890 Census, but the data is highly suspect.

It's well-established that the US Marshals hired to function as enumerators for the census did a shoddy job.

That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of any number of federal government agencies and private entities that rely on that data for studies. NBER and the Federal Reserve and others rip them for it.

I've actually posted the nasty things they've said in past. They did, in fact, extract financial information from the 1890 Census before it was destroyed in a fire.

The Marshals were in such a hurry, that if a house sat too far from the road, they'd skip it and go to the next house, which is why census records have the wrong names of people, or misspelled or missing family members and the financial info is wrong.

But, I will say this. A marriage license in Tennessee cost $1,500. No, I didn't stutter.

I have a few hundred marriage licenses issued in Tennessee between 1820 and 1900. It was $1,500. I even had family members living in Whitley, Bell and Harlan Counties in Kentucky cross over the border into Campbell and Claiborne Counties in Tennessee and pay $1,500 for a marriage license.

Would you pay $1,500 for a marriage license today?

Probably not. You know, if States charged that amount, they'd have more income and there'd probably be fewer divorces.

Anyway, you can get that data on NBER. In 1850 the average income is believe to be about $325/year and by 1890 it was around $440/year.

You're probably saying you couldn't live off that. Well, no, you could. Just strike all your bills. All of them. You wouldn't have a mortgage, home insurance, car note, car insurance, electric, natural gas, water, cable, cell-phone or internet bill.

You might have a mortgage, but remember your house is only going to be 200-400 square feet.

And, you wouldn't be eating meat 7 days a week, either. You'd eat a big breakfast, big lunch and little for dinner. Don't forget you live within walking distance of where you work, so you come home for lunch, unless you're a miner or a lumber-jack or you work in the mills.

Also, don't forget that prior to 1940, 90% of Americans, including children, worked in agriculture.

If you did have the data, you'd find that probably less than 0.05% were Millionaires.

One reason you have more Millionaires is because only 2% of your population works in agriculture now.
Can you document in some way that bit about the cost of a marriage license in Tennessee during that period? I find it simply incredible that one would cost several years' average income, or that anyone would ever buy one, and I have never heard such an assertion before.

Also, numerous sources say that about 18% of the U. S. labor force was engaged in agriculture in 1940, and only about 40% in 1900.

https://www.agclassroom.org/gan/timeline/1940.htm

1940
Total population: 131,820,000; farm population: 30,840,000; farmers 18% of labor force; Number of farms: 6,102,000; average acres: 175; irrigated acres: 17,942,968
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:54 PM
 
633 posts, read 488,859 times
Reputation: 895
According to this book the cost of a marriage license in Tennessee in the nineteenth century was fifty cents.

https://books.google.com/books?id=RD...entury&f=false
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Old 07-01-2019, 05:33 AM
 
527 posts, read 616,303 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by deb100 View Post
According to this book the cost of a marriage license in Tennessee in the nineteenth century was fifty cents.

https://books.google.com/books?id=RD...entury&f=false
Facts vs made up writing.
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